08-08-83 PC Minutes ���
` MINUTES OF THE GOLDEN VALLEY
PLANNING COMMISSION
August 8, 1983
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held in the Council Chambers
of the Civic Center, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota.
Chairman Thompson called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.
Those present were Commissioners Forster, Leppik, Polachek, Singer, Thompson
and Tubman. Commissioner Prazak was not present at the beginning of the
meeting.
Also present were Mike Miller, Planning and Redevelopment Coordinator, Alda
Peikert, Assistant Planner, and Lowell Odland, City Engineer.
I. Approval of Minutes - July 25, 1983
It was moved by Commissioner Tubman, seconded by Commissioner Leppik and
carried unanimously to approve the minutes of the July 25, 1983 Planning
Commission meeting as recorded.
Commissioner Prazak arrived at the meeting.
II. Continuation of Informal Public Hearing on Preliminary Plat
0 o g A dition
APPLICANT: Courey, Schwinn, Kodadek and McRoberts, P.A.
LOCATION: 206 Sunnyridge Lane
REQUEST: Approval of Preliminary Plat of "Tolg
Addition"
Chairman Thompson introduced this agenda item and recognized Mr. John Waldron,
Courey, Schwinn, Kodadek and McRoberts, P.A., who was present to represent the
proponent. Chairman Thompson explained continuation of the informal public
hearing to allow time for the proponent to return with a cul-de-sac design and
reviewed the staff report recommending approval of the original through street
design.
In response to a question from Commissioner Forster, City Engineer Lowell
Odland reviewed lot width nonconformities in the proposed Preliminary Plat and
deficiencies in street width and cul-de-sac size on existing Roanoke Circle.
Commissioner Leppik asked whether it would be possible to redraw the proposed
Preliminary Plat to meet lot width requirements. Mr. Waldron replied that it
is not possible to eliminate the nonconforming lot widths due to the location
of the existing house on the property and due to desire for six lots.
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Planning Commission Minutes - August 8, 1983 -2-
In response to Commissioner questions, Mr. Odland reviewed staff concerns
related to drainage and watermain construction. Mr. Odland compared drainage
areas on the two alternative Preliminary Plat designs and demonstrated that
the through street design poses fewer problems in terms of drainage. Mr.
Odland explained that looping of watermain is desirable for two reasons:
1) Provision of alternate water source in the event of a breakage and 2) eli-
mination of the stagnant water problem experienced by the last few houses on a
dead end water line.
Chairman Thompson opened the informal public hearing for public input.
Mr. James Garfunkel , 200 Sunnyridge Lane, stated that he lives next to the
drainage ditch which would serve a portion of the proposed "Tolg Addition".
Mr. Garfunkel stated that the ditch tends to overflow and that he believes he
and his neighbor would be flooded out by the -proposed development.
Mr. Garfunkel added that he would like to see consideration given to the fine
stand of trees existing in the area of the proposed Preliminary Plat and that
he would like to hear complaints received from snowplow drivers concerning
cul-de-sacs.
Mr. Odland referred Planning Commissioners to an article on snowplowing in the
City of Eagan, which is comparable to the City of Golden Valley in terms of
total miles of streets. The article explains that Eagan uses special equip-
ment for plowing of cul-de-sacs and that cul-de-sac streets are plowed twice,
once by the snowplows and again by the followup equipment. Mr. Odland pointed
out that equipment operators are able to plow many blocks of straight streets
in the time required to plow one cul-de-sac. He also stated that the City of
Golden Valley staff prefers not to pass twice with snowplowing equipment, thus
twice blocking driveways with snow. Mr. Odland added that the City of Eden
Prairie no longer allows cul-de-sacs unless there is no other way to develop a
site.
Commissioner Tubman relayed personal experience with contract service for
clearance of cul-de-sacs and noted that on occasions of considerable snowfall
the small pickups meant to do the work were unable to get into the cul-de-
sacs. Mr. Odland confirmed this problem with the example of the City of
Minnetonka which contracts for plowing of cul-de-sacs. Mr. Odland stated that
the pickups contracted are unable to move in heavy snows.
Mr. Virgil Mylan, 204 Sunnyridge Lane, stated that he lives next door to the
Tolg property. Mr. Mylan expressed concern over drainage from the proposed
development onto adjacent properties. Mr. Mylan observed that the east side
of the Tolg property, which the neighbors refer to as meadow, is flat and
absorbs surface water. Mr. Mylan speculated that any change in that low area
would affect his own property due to the fact that it is also very low. Mr.
Mylan noted that snowplowing of cul-de-sacs results in heaps of snow and
expressed preference for the through street design which would carry more sur-
face water drainage on the street and have less drainage impact on adjacent
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Planning Commission Minutes - August 8, 1983 -3-
property. Mr. Mylan stated that either development design should make provi-
sion for drainage. Mr. Mylan also stated the opinion that there are plenty of
trees for everyone. Mr. Mylan concluded with the statement that he is very
much against the cul-de-sac design.
Mrs. Pat Webster, 4007 Roanoke Circle, stated that she lives on the existing
Roanoke Circle cul-de-sac, that she was unaware that the cul-de-sac size is
minimal and that the size seems adequate to her. Mrs. Webster stated that the
charm of the area is in its cul-de-sacs.
Mrs. Shary Essig, 4010 Roanoke Circle, expressed concern over traffic
resulting from a through street. Mrs. Essig stated that part of the reason
she and her husband purchased their home was because they wanted a home on a
quiet cul-de-sac street rather than a through street.
Mrs. Daria Lysyj, 4004 Roanoke Circle, complimented City engineers on
excellent snowplowing of the existing Roanoke Circle cul-de-sac. She stated
that her husband is an obstetrician who must be able to get out in cases of
emergency and that he has never had a problem. Mrs. Lysyj observed that
snowplows may plow driveways closed twice even on through streets, which was
her experience when living at a previous location in Golden Valley. Mrs.
Lysyj concluded with the statement that she wishes to keep the cul-de-sac
which is beautiful and peaceful .
Mr. Bill Webster, 4007 Roanoke Circle, stated that he was surprised that the
proponent would submit a proposed cul-de-sac design which includes noncon-
forming lots. Mr. Webster stated that he believes there is no difference bet-
ween the cul-de-sac and through street designs in terms of surface water
drainage onto adjacent properties. Mr. Webster also suggested that looping of
the watermain could be achieved by jogging of the watermain along property
lines to connect with the proposed new cul-de-sac or by means of redesign of
the proposed new cul-de-sac plat.
Chairman Thompson closed the informal public hearing.
Commissioner Leppik asked whether it is possible to jog the watermain along
property lines in the proposed cul-de-sac plat to provide a watermain connec-
tion from the existing Roanoke Circle cul-de-sac to a new cul-de-sac on the
Tolg property. Mr. Odland stated that it is possible, but that every water-
main bend increases the potential for breaks and that access for maintenance
and repair is considerably more difficult in yards than in streets, especially
in winter. Mr. Odland further pointed out that completion of the watermain
loop between cul-de-sacs would require grading and tree removal so that the
cul-de-sac design would necessitate tree removal to almost the same extent as
the through street design.
Chairman Thompson expressed concern over the fact that the proponent has not
submitted drainage plans acceptable to the City Engineer for either the
through street design or the cul-de-sac design. Chairman Thompson stated that
Planning Commission Minutes - August 8, 1983 -4- �3 9
he is uncomfortable with recommending approval of either design without
knowing which way the drainage will go.
Mr. Waldron stated that direction was given to the surveyor to provide the
City with all information required and that he would check into failure to
complete acceptable drainage plans. Mr. Waldron pointed out that in either
case a drainage plan acceptable to the City Engineer would be provided. Mr.
Waldron stated that the developer has attempted to cooperate with staff and
Planning Commission requirements and has submitted three designs, including a
through street design and both 50 foot and 60 foot radius cul-de-sac designs.
Mr. Waldron requested that the Planning Commission take action that evening to
provide direction on a choice of through street or cul-de-sac design.
Chairman Thompson questioned whether it would be appropriate for the Planning
Commission to recommend a Preliminary Plat which includes nonconforming lots.
Commissioner Prazak stated that he is more concerned with the impacts of a
through street on the surrounding area and that he feels the nonconformities
are minor in comparison.
Commissioner Tubman stated that she agrees that the nonconformities are minor
but that when all problems with the cul-de-sac design are totalled up, as m�ach
as she likes the cul-de-sac aesthetically, she could not recor�nend to the City
Council a plan with as many problems as the cul-de-sac design. Commissioner
Tubman concluded that if a decision were to be made that night, she would
recommend the through street design.
Commissioner Prazak suggested that the cul-de-sac could be redesigned with
five lots to eliminate nonconformities.
Commissioner Polachek agreed that the proponent appeared to have done a poor
job on the cul-de-sac design and that it could be redesigned to eliminate non-
conforming lots, to improve drainage and to provide for watermain easement.
Ms. Peikert pointed out that of the six concerns listed in the staff report in
connection with the cul-de-sac design, three could be addressed by an improved
cul-de-sac design but three could not be alleviated by any cul-de-sac design.
Those which could be addressed in an improved design include nonconforming lot
widths, watermain connection and drainage. Those which could not be alle-
viated include life safety concerns, street maintenance problems and deficien-
cies in street width and radius of existing Roanoke Circle.
Commissioner Leppik stated that the three concerns which could not be resolved
do not seem that troublesome to her and that she would like to see the propo-
nent come back with a five lot cul-de-sac design.
Mr. Waldron stated that the developer is very much opposed to requirement of a
five lot design due to the severe financial hardship. Mr. Waldron stated that
the inequity of such a requirement, considering the developer has submitted a
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Planning Commission Minutes - August 8, 1983 -5-
through street plan which conforms to City Ordinance requirements, would be
too great to ignore.
Commissioner Leppik asked whether one lot in the proposed through street
design is so low as to be unbuildable. Mr. Odland replied that there will be
problems with development of the subject Tolg property with any design and
that any development will require considerable grading, fill and consequent
cutting of trees in order to provide buildable lots. Mr. Odland further
pointed out that the lots on the existing temporary Roanoke Circle are
arranged for an eventual through street, not for a permanent cul-de-sac, and
that setbacks of the homes on the existing cul-de-sac are based on eventual
through street design.
Commissioner Tubman stated that although it is difficult to reco�nnend a plan
which displeases the neighborhood, from a planning standpoint the through
street design is the best way to develop the property.
It was moved by Commissioner Tubman and seconded by Commissioner Leppik to
recommend City Council approval of the original Preliminary Plat of "Tolg
Addition" utilizing a through street design subject to the following
conditions:
1. Provision of a complete drainage plan satisfactory to the City
Engineer prior to City Council consideration of the Preliminary
Plat.
2. Addition on the Final Plat of standard six foot drainage and
utility easements along side and rear property lines.
3. Payment of cash in lieu of land for park and open space pur-
poses in an amount of $7,500, which is equivalent to ten
percent of the $75,000 fair market value of the undeveloped
land included in the Preliminary Plat.
Commissioner Leppik stated that she would prefer to see two cul-de-sacs but
that under the circumstances she felt bound to go with the design that con-
forms to Ordinance requirements.
Commissioner Forster stated that he does not like'the through street design
but agrees with that choice.
Commissioner Prazak stated that presentation of an inadequate alternative in
the cul-de-sac design does not improve the original through street design.
Chairman Thompson called for a roll call vote, and the motion carried by a
vote of six to one. Commissioners Forster, Leppik, Polachek, Singer, Thompson
and Tubman voted in favor of the motion. Commissioner Prazak voted against
the motion.
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III. Report on City Council Meeting - August 2, 1983
Commissioner Singer provided the Planning Commission with a report on the
August 2, 1983 City Council meeting.
City Engineer Lowell Odland added a report on the August 2, 1983 City Council
agenda item on closing of the Holiday Lane access to Highway 100.
V. Report on PACAC Meeting - July 26, 1983
Commissioner Prazak, representative from the City of Golden Valley to the
Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Planning Area Citizen Advisory
Committee (PACAC) for Area One, provided the Planning Commission with a report
on the July 26, 1983 Committee meeting for review of proposals for use of con-
tingency funds. Commissioner Prazak reported to the Planning Commission that
the Committee recommendation to the Hennepin County Board included allocation
of $30,000 in CDBG contingency funds to the City of Golden Valley Housing
Rehabilitation Grant Program.
VI. Notification of Seminar on the Basies of Zoning Administration
Planning and Redevelopment Coordinator Mike Miller explained availability of
City funds to pay for Planning Commissioner attendance at a zoning program to
be held at Normandale Community College. None of the Planning Commissioners
expressed interest in attendance.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:55 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
David hompson, Chairman Margaret eppi , Secretary