04-23-01 PC Minutes
Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2001
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall,
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
April 23, 2001. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Hoffman, McAleese,
and Shaffer. Commissioner Rasmussen was absent. Also present were Director of
Planning and Development Mark Grimes, City Planner Dan Olson and Recording
Secretary Lisa Wittman.
I. Approval of Minutes - April 9, 2001 Planning Commission Meeting
MOVED by Eck, seconded by Groger and motion carried unanimously to approve the
April 9, 2001 minutes as submitted.
II. Informal Public Hearing - Preliminary Design Plan - Hidden Lakes P.U.D. No. 74
Amendment
Applicant Hidden Lakes Development, LP
Address: Block 5 and Block 9, Outlots F and M, Hidden Lakes PUD No. 74,
Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The P.U.D. would allow for the construction of 7 single family homes
on Block 5, and 10 single family villa homes on Block 9, Outlots F and
M.
Chair Pentel outlined the process for conducting the public hearing and introduced the
applicant's request.
Grimes reviewed his staff report regarding the requested amendment to Planned Unit
Development number 74. Grimes referred to the site map pointing out that it is located
South of Golden Valley Road near the Courage Center. When this PUD was approved in
1997 the peninsula was not included in the PUD other than allowing the existing home
on the peninsula to remain. The other amendment area is along Block 9, which was
previously planned for the construction of one carriage home, which would have two
units in it. Now they have changed their minds and would like to construct Golf Villa
homes in that location, which are similar to the ones on Skyline Drive.
Pentel asked Grimes to point out the street names and to clarify what's referred to as
Block One and Block 2. Grimes pointed out the streets.
Grimes referred to the original PUD Master Permit that affects the entire PUD and the
sub-permits, which affect the various portions of the PUD such as the golf villa homes,
the town homes and the single-family homes. He stated the two proposed amendments
would require changes to several sections of the existing PUD permit. The master permit
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 2
indicates that the peninsula may be used only for one single-family home and outlot M
was left vacant for the potential development of the carriage homes. The sub-permit for
the peninsula states that an amendment to the sub-permit to allow additional
development may be applied for when the conditions found in the minutes of a Special
Meeting of the City Council from June 19, 1997 are met.
Grimes first discussed the Golf Villa Homes on Block 9, Lots 1 and 2; and on Outlot M.
He stated that Hidden Lakes Development has decided not to construct carriage homes
as originally proposed in 1997 and instead are proposing the construction of ten golf villa
homes. Grimes stated the lots they are proposing are about 50 feet wide and 108 feet
deep, about 5,100 square feet in area. He stated the homes that are being proposed will
be about 38 feet wide and 65 feet long and will have an attached two-car garage. He
stated access to the golf villa homes will be from a one-way street off of Skyline Drive
and will exit out onto Hidden Lakes Parkway. There will be no parking permitted on the
street with exception to 8 spaces on the west side of the road for guest parking. He
stated Staff feels this would be adequate parking for this area and that overall this is a
good location for the golf villas.
Grimes referred to the City Engineers memo related to grading, drainage, and erosion
control and stated that the runoff from proposed Block 2 will be routed north into an
existing pond on the Courage Center property and the utility services will be from
extensions to existing utility mains in the area. He stated a tree preservation plan has
been submitted and noted the tree preservation ordinance was passed since this PUD
was adopted. He stated when the original PUD was approved in 1997 the City didn't
have a tree preservation ordinance. However, the City is now requiring that they now
comply with the tree preservation ordinance.
Pentel asked how the setting of these homes deviates from the subdivision code. in
regards to setbacks, lot size and variances required. Grimes stated all of Hidden Lakes is
on private streets and that there isn't a public street adjacent to this piece of property.
He stated that normally the City requires single-family lots in the residential zoning district
to have 80 feet of width and 10,000 square feet of area. The front set back from a public
street is normally 35 feet. Side yard setbacks on 80-foot lots are about 12 % feet or 15%
of the lot width. Rear yard setbacks are 20% of the lot depth. In this case, the lots are
about 105 feet deep so they would require a 20-foot setback. They are proposing 15 feet
in the front and back.
Shaffer asked what the proposal is for outlots B&C. Grimes stated it would probably
remain common open space. Shaffer asked if the same layout would work if the houses
weren't in a linear pattern. Shaffer stated he is concerned about the houses being so
close to each other and that with the way they are lined up it will be visible from Golden
Valley Road and would look like townhouses. He questioned if there was a way to
redesign it so it doesn't look like one building. Grimes stated that that would be a
question for the developer but that they were trying to do something similar to the other
Golf Villas in the area.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 3
Grimes next discussed the lots on the peninsula. He stated that in 1997 Hidden Lakes
had originally proposed the development of the peninsula, however when it went to the
City Council it was taken off of consideration and the Council approved the PUD without
the development of the peninsula indicating they could come back with plans for
developing the peninsula if certain conditions were met. Grimes stated that the five
conditions are part of the PUD permit and that Staff has found that each condition has
been met. Grimes briefly outlined the conditions. The first condition is all environmental
and other information related to the development on the peninsula has been assembled
and provided to the City. He stated staff that has received all information related to
environmental issues and that much of this information was provided as part of the EAW
process that was done in 1997. The findings indicated that no substantial environmental
harm would be caused by the Hidden Lakes Development, including the peninsula.
The second condition is all due diligence and all care have been taken to address the
issues regarding development on the peninsula including environmental issues. Grimes
stated staff has received the information necessary to address development of the
peninsula and the information submitted shows that the peninsula will be developed in an
environmentally responsible manner.
The third condition is all major grading and infrastructure on Phase I has been
successfully completed and the developer has successfully complied with all related
conditions of approval and requirements of environmental sensitivity on Phase I. Grimes
stated all major grading and infrastructure improvements on Phase I have been
completed and Hidden Lakes Development has received all necessary approvals and
certifications from state agencies regarding cleanup of environmental pollution.
The fourth condition is home building has been successfully completed on at least five
lakeshore lots of Phase I. Grimes stated that according to the Inspections Department,
this has been accomplished.
The fifth condition is ten of the townhomes have been issued Certificates of Occupancy.
Grimes stated that according to the Inspections Department, this has been
accomplished.
Grimes stated the City Council minutes from June 19, 1997 also indicate that when the
plans are submitted to develop the peninsula, four criteria shall be used to determine if
the plans are adequate. Grimes stated that staff has found that these four criteria have
been met. The first criterion is all lots to be created shall exceed the minimum lot size
and the average lot size shall be twice the minimum lot size established by the DNR in
shoreland impact areas. Grimes stated that lots within a shoreland impact area must be
at least 20,000 square feet in area. In the case of the seven lots being proposed for the
peninsula, all lots exceed this and that the average size lot is well over twice the
minimum set by the DNR. Grimes referred to a letter from Tom Hovey, Area Hydrologist
for the DNR and stated that the letter indicates that the DNR has no permitting authority
because all construction will be done above the ordinary high water mark for Sweeney
and Twin Lakes and that the plans appear to be consistent with the City's shoreland
management chapter of the zoning code and finds that it meets, or will meet the
requirements.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 4
The second criterion is that the private road be setback at least 50 feet from the ordinary
high water mark. Grimes stated the private road would be at least 50 feet from the
ordinary high water mark except where it nears the bridge, which was understood by the
Council when the PUD was approved in 1997.
The third criterion is that Hidden Lakes shall retain the services of a qualified
geohydrologist to verify the location and number of seeps and springs and all of these
features shall be protected by inclusion within the designated "no impact zone". Grimes
stated a geohydrologist was hired and a report was prepared indicating the location of
seeps and springs. These seeps and springs are all located within conservation
easements and will not be affected by construction.
The fourth criterion is that the City Engineer shall determine whether the lots to be
created have adequate buildable area after all necessary land has been provided to
accommodate storm water improvements, environmental easements, restrictions on
woodland clearing and all other performance standards contained in Jeff Oliver's memo
dated February 13, 1997. Grimes stated the City Engineer is confident that there is
adequate room on the peninsula to accommodate seven lots along with necessary
easements for improvements such as roads, conservation easements, storm water
ponds, and tree preservation areas.
Grimes stated staff has determined that the application for an amended PUD to allow
development on the peninsula can go forward but it doesn't mean that the development
will be approved without review.
Grimes stated that the development of the peninsula would be restricted in a manner
similar to the lakeshore lots in the other parts of Hidden Lakes. He stated they will have
conservation easements protecting the shoreline of both Twin and Sweeney Lakes and
only canoes or other hand-paddled boats will be allowed in Twin Lake and that the size
of the docks on Twin and Sweeney Lakes will be restricted in the same manner as the
home lots on Sweeney Lake and the east side of Twin Lake.
Grimes stated that park dedication for the development of the peninsula must be
addressed as outlined in the PUD permit on page 3, number 7. The permit states that
"Ultimate development plans for the peninsula will be shaped by City decisions about
park dedication, which may include a trail on a portion of the peninsula, as well as the
relative weight that the City chooses to place on specific environmental features,
characteristics, or objectives." He stated the City has to make a decision about park
dedication on the peninsula.
Grimes stated that the plans for the peninsula do not include a public trail or trail
easement. He stated staff does not recommend that a trail run through or across the
peninsula for several reasons. First, if there were a trail, it would have to be paved and
be separate from the private road serving the seven homes. This would mean another 8-
9 feet of paved surface and therefore, additional runoff. Second, it would make the
proposed lots narrower than they are now shown on the plan. Third, what would be the
destination of the trail at the south end of the peninsula? There is currently a path in that
area that runs to the end of Kilarney Drive. Grimes indicated on site plan the trail that the
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 5
City now has through the Hidden Lakes development connecting Golden Valley Road to
Wirth Park and the future Hennepin Park trail. He stated there was a dedication of an
easement over one lot toward the north end of the development that is now used for
public access for non-motorized boats and there is a picnic area and a gazebo that will
be constructed this spring.
Grimes stated that staff is recommending that a cash dedication be made to the City for
park dedication and anticipates that this cash will be used for the development of the
Adeline Lane lot at the south end of Sweeney Lake.
Grimes stated that staff is recommending approval of the preliminary design plan for
proposed Block 1 and Block 2 and are asking that the memo from City Engineer Jeff
Oliver, the recommendation from Deputy Fire Marshal Ed Anderson to have sprinkler
systems in the homes, no physical park dedication and a portage crossing at the
peninsula bridge be conditions of this approval.
Grimes stated that part of the approval for park dedication was that there would be a trail
connecting from the existing north/south trail to the peninsula along Island Drive and that
would be constructed at the time there is development on the peninsula. He stated that
the Planning Commission and City Council would need to decide if there is a need for
this trail if there is no trail on the peninsula.
Pentel stated that public access along Island Drive is part of the PUD permit and it
seems to her that that has to be addressed. She also stated there are many trails in
Golden Valley that are on streets and that the City's paved trail system is much smaller
than the on-street trails. Grimes stated that this trail would be off the street. He stated
that the policy of the Council has been that all trails should not be on the street because
of safety reasons.
Pentel referred to Grimes' memo on page 4 in the first criterion where it talks about the
proposed lots exceeding the minimum lot size of 20,000 square feet and asked if that is
a DNR statute or a rule. Grimes stated it's a rule, not a statute. Pentel asked if there is
anywhere else in Golden Valley where private roads are considered to be part of the
adjoining lots. She said every other private road in Hidden Lakes is an outlot.
Grimes stated he would have to look at a map to say for sure, but that the difference
here is the property owners would own property on both sides of the road and would
have access to Twin Lake on the other side of the private road so then you would be
splitting their property by an outlot. They will have private property rights on both sides of
the road. That's why it's kept as an easement rather than a dedication for the other
property owners to enjoy.
Eck referred to letters received from concerned citizens, which take exception to the
hydrologists report in regard to the seeps and springs. These citizens hired a consultant
of their own which indicates the recharge for these seeps and springs does not occur
entirely offsite, but is, in fact, in part, recharged from the peninsula itself which means
construction there would have an impact on the seeps and springs and asked Staff how
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 6
this report should be factored in. Grimes stated basically there are two hydrologists
saying two different things, but the seeps and springs that have been identified are all in
the no impact zone of the development. They are all within the 50-foot conservation
easement where there is no construction planned at all. The engineer that originally
looked at the site indicated that and felt that having the seeps and springs in the no
impact zone was adequate. He did go on the site and walk the site. The engineer that the
citizens hired did not get on the property and had not done an analysis of the site other
than looking at it from a canoe.
Eck stated that the citizen's letters also take exception with the way the high water line is
calculated with regard to the seeps and springs and indicated that it should be calculated
differently taking into account the location of the seeps and springs as influencing the
location of the high water line. Grimes stated he spoke with Tom Hovey, the DNR area
hydrologist and indicated the concerns Mr. Maynard had in his letter. Mr. Hovey indicated
that determining the high water level using the sloping wetland definition does not fit for a
lake and should be used when looking at a sloping wetland. Sweeney Lake is considered
a lake and the high water mark is 827.7. This is a different category and he's not
comparing apples to apples.
Pentel referred to subdivision 11.65, subdivision 5 zoning provisions for shorelands and
stated there is discussion about structure setbacks from ordinary high water marks that
says where feasible and practical all roads and parking areas shall meet the setback
requirements established for structures which would be 75 feet and in no instance shall
these impervious services be placed less than fifty feet. She stated that the retaining wall
at some points is going to be so tall that it will require a building permit. She asked if that
indicates that perhaps the City is allowing a structure to be built closer than our
ordinance would indicate that we should be building structures. She stated it's not a road
and a building permit is going to be required to build this retaining wall. She asked how
staff and Jeff Oliver looked at that. Grimes stated the reason the City requires a building
permits for retaining walls over 4 feet in height is to make sure they are structurally
sound. The reason the wall is being proposed there is to protect the shoreland and to
have minimal disturbance along the 50-foot no impact zone.
Pentel asked if the City has a no phosphate fertilizer requirement and stated that on
page 7-14 in the Hidden Lakes plans it states that they will be reseeding the disturbed
areas with a fertilizer type that may have up to 400 Ibs of phosphate per acre. Grimes
stated that page 10 of the PUD permit says no phosphate will be used. Pentel asked how
that is monitored. Grimes stated it's easier to monitor in this situation, because Hidden
Lakes Development does all the maintenance for the entire development and isn't done
on an individual basis. If that was indicated on the plans, it was a mistake and the permit
would override that.
Grimes referred to the area on the peninsula that is going to be maintained as a
conservation easement to save a large grove of oak trees. Pentel asked if there would
be additional conservation easements along the shoreline as well. Grimes stated yes, all
along the shoreline there would be a conservation easement.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 7
Pentel stated that on page 4-14 of the Hidden Lakes plans, the proposed drainage and
utility easement arrow is pointing to the wrong line. Grimes stated that all the drainage
easements on the peninsula are going to be vacated and rededicated to go along the
1 DO-year flood elevation plan.
Eck asked Grimes to talk about rain gardens and how they differ from ponding. Grimes
stated it's an alternative form of storm water drainage and helps with filtration of the
water before it drains into the water bodies, which in this case is Sweeney and Twin
Lakes. He stated that basically, they are infiltration areas and the storm water drainage
goes into these areas and infiltrates naturally into the soil. Rather than creating the large
pond that was originally proposed on the end of the peninsula, there is a series of these
rain gardens. He stated the rain gardens still require some more detailed discussions
with the Engineering Department and with the Bassett Creek Water Management
Organization and still have to be approved by the Bassett Creek Water Organization. He
stated that the City has received positive comments on the rain gardens so far because it
requires less impact on the area than digging ponds. Eck asked what keeps the rain
gardens from becoming ponds. Grimes showed a drawing of a rain garden and explained
that they are not as deep and they provide for infiltration through the soil rather than
directly into a pond. Pentel stated it's not clear from the information they've received,
what will happen in times of heavy rain and stated there's going to have to be some
excavation and some moving of soil in order to create a difference in elevation between
the rain gardens and the bodies of water they are to be cleaning the water for. Pentel
asked if the runoff from all the impervious surfaces is going to be routed to the rain
gardens. Grimes stated his understanding is that all the runoff would be routed to the rain
gardens. Pentel asked how the runoff would get to the rain gardens. Grimes stated she
would have to ask the developer for more details.
Shaffer asked how much of the area on the peninsula is actually going to be disturbed.
He stated the plans indicate that there's not going to be much disturbance, but he's
concerned that the whole peninsula is going to be disturbed. Grimes stated there is going
to be disturbance with this development and stated that page 7-14 on the grading plans
indicate that there will be 1.65 acres of disturbed area and 7.82 acres of undisturbed
area. Pentel stated when she reads the details on that same page she questions the total
number of acres being disturbed especially if each house is going to be graded to what
the road is.
Shaffer asked if houses, driveways, roadways, etc. are included in the total impervious
surface. Grimes stated roadways, driveways and roofs are included.
Hoffman referred to a letter from a citizen, which stated that the Minneapolis Park Board
determined in 1980 that soils on the peninsula are unsuitable for development and that
development would risk major environmental damage to the water quality. He asked if
the developer is aware of this statement. Grimes stated that there are some soils on the
peninsula and throughout the rest of the Hidden Lakes project that have less then
suitable soil. However, in speaking with the engineers, when using proper construction
techniques those issues can be resolved.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23,2008
Page 8
Groger asked for clarification on the shaded areas on page 4-14 of the plans. Grimes
stated the shaded areas are the buildable areas. Groger stated the homes seem to be
very close to the roadway. Grimes stated the requirements of the PUD ordinance state
that no structure can be any closer than 15 feet from the roadway. Groger asked if the
structures could be further away. Grimes stated the Planning Commission and Council
could designate areas where the footprint of the building can go on each of these lots.
Groger stated lot 6 doesn't show much, if any, of a driveway. Grimes stated one of things
he would like to see is that there be 20-foot driveways. Groger talked about the parking
concerns at Hidden Lakes now and asked if there will be parking along the easement
area. Grimes stated there will be parking for 4-5 cars along the easement area and most
of the homes will have 3 car garages which will allow more room for parking. He stated
the more parking, the more impervious surface there is. He also stated there would be no
parking along the street, because it's only 16-20 feet wide. (With the exception near the
tree conservation easement.)
Shaffer asked why the 20-foot wide street near the golf villas is a one-way street. He
stated that it sounded like from Jeff Oliver's report that it needed to be one-way because
it was 20 feet wide. Grimes stated that the Public Safety Director wanted the radius of
the curve for emergency access. Shaffer asked why the road on the peninsula is less
than 16 feet and it's a two-way road and stated he was concerned about the width of the
road and two cars being able to pass each other. Grimes stated an option would be to
have them widen the roads. Groger stated the Commission could have them increase
the width of the road and minimize the size of the house on lot five where the road tapers
to 16 feet. Pentel asked ifit is a private road, who will be allowed to park there. Grimes
stated he believed that access is going to be restricted.
Shaffer asked if the conservation monuments are used within the individual lots as well.
He asked when the individual homeowners have 30% that they are allowed to develop
up to the lake who protects the rest of the 70%. Grimes stated that there is an agreement
between the homeowner association and the homeowner that the area can't be disturbed
other than 30% of the lakeshore. Shaffer asked if there are monuments at each lot.
Grimes stated it would be monumented at every other lot line.
John Uban, Principal at Dahlgren, Shardlow, Uban, gave a presentation about the
development of the peninsula. He showed an area map and discussed the variety of
housing types that have been built so far at Hidden Lakes. He stated that he feels
they've shown that they really can do the environmental protection that people are
concerned about. He stated there was about 8 million dollars worth of environmental
clean up, with no expense to the City or any other public agency, because of what was
thought to have been a polluted area. He showed an aerial photo of the Hidden Lakes
site and showed that there was no significant impact to the surrounding waters and
stated that all the run-off has been directed toward a ponding system on the interior of
the development to catch the impact during the grading portion of developing. He stated
they've followed all the regulations of the City, the DNR, and Watershed district to make
sure this is a quality development.
He stated that one benefit to the City is over $600,000 in tax dollars and a projected $1.6
million when the development is done. He stated the roads are private and the City won't
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 9
be spending money on maintenance and additionally, the development has a set of
amenities to provide recreation such as the trail running north/south, a tot lot, a canoe
launch, an arbor system and a bridge to connect the peninsula. Pentel asked if the
bridge would be rebuilt. Uban stated that it would be.
Pentel asked how the utilities would be routed from the main development to the
peninsula. Aaron Hemquist, RLK stated that they are proposing to run the sanitary lines
under the lakebed as opposed to running them under the bridge as they currently are
now. Uban stated the bridge is proposed to have fishing platforms on either side. In
addition, it will accommodate canoeing. Hoffman asked if the bridge is only a walking
bridge. Pentel stated no, that's the way cars get to the peninsula.
Pentel asked about the lake improvements on Sweeney Lake and attaching them
somehow to this development in the CIP. She wanted clarification why the link was being
made between park dedication by Hidden Lakes when the funding is already showing up
in the Capital Improvement Plan. Grimes stated that a suggestion was made at staff
meetings, that because the Adeline Lane Lot is on Sweeney Lake, the funding from this
park dedication can be used to help fund that project and parks throughout the City.
Pentel stated that in the PUD ordinance it states that there will be a trail that comes down
Island Drive to the bridge and asked if there will be public access to the bridge. Uban
stated that ideally they would like to have an informal, more natural trail coming down to
the bridge.
Uban referred to a map of the site that showed completed lots, sold lots, reserved lots
and available lots. He stated that the golf villa homes are lined up in a row because of a
utility line that goes along the front edge of the driveways. Also with the architecture,
they are meant to sit side-by-side, but there will be a variety in elevation and height. Also,
the golf villa homes are close together so they won't lose any of the green space and
they are built to the same standards as the other golf villas in the area.
Uban stated that in 1997 they had looked at having 10 lots on the peninsula, that was
also the number and arrangement of lots considered and studied in the EAW, but after
hearing many concerns, they have seriously changed the plans. He referred to a map
showing the lot comparison between 16 lots, 10 lots and 7 lots and stated that the lots on
the Sweeney lake side have an average of 330 feet of lakeshore frontage per lot. They
have almost 2/3 of a mile of shoreline divided into 7 lots. He stated they have given each
lot a very large area to accommodate a building and still provide a great deal of
protection to the lake. He stated they've increased the no impact zone to 50 feet and
stated that every suggestion, recommendation, and comment from the City has been
reviewed and complied with.
He discussed the rain gardens they've proposed and stated they are to replicate a much
more natural system and require less excavation than ponds. Shaffer asked if there is
maintenance required on the rain gardens. Uban stated there is some maintenance
required, especially when they are first established and that is something that the
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 10
homeowners association or a landscape firm would take care of. Pentel asked how the
water from the roofs and roads gets to the rain gardens. Uban stated they have a
drainage system that pipes the water to the rain gardens. Pentel asked if there are
overflow pipes in case the rain gardens fill. Uban stated there is a natural area for the
water to spill into if the rain garden gets absolutely full.
Uban stated they have surveyed all the trees and they are going to save as many oaks
as they can but will be removing some ash, box elder, willow and some cottonwoods.
Uban showed a map of the lake access easements and stated that Peterson
Environmental has surveyed where all the seeps and springs are and that they all fall
within the no impact zone and that they will all be preserved. Uban summarized by
stating the City will gain the following things from this proposal: 1) The no impact zone
has been increased to 50 feet which is more than required by the ordinance. 2) There
are 7 lots being proposed as opposed to 10 or 16.3) There will be a private road, which
minimizes the impact to the peninsula. 4) There is an exceptional tree preservation plan.
5) There is exceptional surface water management with rain gardens that replicate
natural systems. 6) There is guaranteed protection of wooded areas. 7) There is
unprecedented protection of seeps and springs, which are not required to be protected.
8) The steep slopes are being protected as if they were bluffs. 9) There is a tremendous
increase in taxable value.
Eck asked if there were any pictures or sketches of what these proposed homes will look
like on the peninsula, how high they are and if they will face Hidden Lakes. Uban stated
all these homes will be custom designed and doesn't think there will be a typical front
and back to these homes, but that there would be a view from all directions.
He stated they don't have any home designs yet, but would be happy to submit an
example of what a home might look like. Eck stated that one of the main concerns
among citizens in this area is the visual impact of these homes as well as the
environmental concerns of the peninsula. Uban stated that the homes can't be pre-
designed not knowing who is going to be buying the lots, but stated he could provide an
example of how the homes may fit into the landscape. Eck asked how they intend to
minimize the visual impact of the retaining wall. Uban stated that they will be able to plant
on top, the road will be at the bottom, and they will be able to protect all the vegetation
that exists between the road and the lake. There is also another five feet of no impact
zone beyond the retaining wall that will be restored back to its natural character. Eck
asked if the retaining wall would be visible from the Twin Lake side. Uban stated there
may be a couple of spots where the retaining wall would be visible.
Eck referred to letters the Planning Commission has received from current Hidden Lakes
residents who are dissatisfied with water run off, maintenance, rubbish removal,
landscaping, general upkeep, parking and snow removal. Eck asked the developer if he
was aware of these complaints and if these were ongoing problems, and asked what is
going to be done about these problems. Pentel asked if there has been a neighborhood
meeting with all of the existing homeowners regarding this development. Bill Huser,
Hidden Lakes Development, stated they do have meetings with the homeowners and
explained the way the homeowner groups are structured. He stated that the association
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 11
is in a state of transition and the letters Eck referred to are from people that are living in
the area where the townhouses are being built and that is creating a great deal of
activity. He stated they do work extremely hard to deal with these issues and stated there
is another association meeting coming up within the next week.
Pentel asked for a description of snow storage that will occur on the peninsula and
garbage removal from the peninsula area. Huser stated that there is one sanitary
contractor that currently handles all of Hidden Lakes and they will handle the peninsula
as well. He stated that there is also one contractor for snow removal and that snow would
be removed from the peninsula to another part of the site, but that final details haven't
been worked out yet.
Pentel asked if lots will be graded to the elevation of the roadway and if the homes on
the peninsula will have basements. Aaron Hemquist, RLK, stated that the subgrade
elevation is roadway minus the pavement. The pavement section hasn't been
determined yet, but the lots will be tapered into the roadway and some will be higher,
some will be lower. The lots themselves will be graded to the back of the curb. Pentel
referred to lots 3 and 5 and stated that the road at lot 3 sits at 838 feet and the road at lot
5 sits at 836 feet and the middle of that lot is 11 feet higher.
Hemquist stated that they tried to match the roadway to the existing terrain and the
houses will have to fit in. He stated he believes there would be basements excavated for
these homes.
Shaffer asked if the retaining wall is going to be a flat concrete wall. Huser stated no, it
will be a textured wall and will fit in with the other walls that are in the development. He
stated the wall being proposed would be a poured in place wall because it doesn't
require as much sloping and it's much stronger. He stated that during the summer
months, the vegetation is so dense that much of the wall won't be seen.
Shaffer stated he noticed on the plans that there is construction within the drip line of the
trees and asked for clarification on that. Uban stated it is ideal to stay out of the drip line,
however, they intend to do precise root pruning and use fencing, trenching, fertilization
and protection. Shaffer asked who controls how that happens on the individual lots later
on. Uban stated the City has ordinances, and inspectors and the homeowner's
association often times hire a landscaping firm to oversee this process.
Groger referred to the conservation easements and stated that the lots on the peninsula
would have easements potentially similar to those on the existing lake side lots which on
the east side of Twin Lake allows for clearing of no more than 30% of the area extending
inland 37 % feet from the shoreline. He asked what the experience has been on the east
side of the lake and how much clearing took place. He asked what they would anticipate
along the shorelines given the concern of the impact to both Sweeney and Twin Lakes.
Huser referred to the site plan and referred to block 6 as an example. He stated the 37%
feet conservation easement is based on DNR guidelines. He stated they work with
individual buyers and put the conservation easements on each lot certificate so the home
is being designed to achieve the least amount of impact to the shoreline and they are
well
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 12
within the 30% allowed for clearing. Groger asked if they would have any objections to
having a smaller percentage of potentially developable land along the shoreline. Huser
stated that would be manageable and they are trying to select the best way for
homeowners to have a trail to go to the lake that would have the least impact on the
seeps and springs, the slope and the vegetation. Grimes showed pictures of two homes
that are on Twin lake and showed the minimal impact to the lakeshore when a trail was
added.
Pentel asked if there is a maximum height requirement of 25 feet. Grimes stated the
DNR has a guideline of 25 feet in shore land impact areas. It isn't in the City's shore land
ordinance, it isn't adopted and isn't a law. Pentel asked if the City could decide to put a
height limitation on the homes. Grimes stated they probably could if there are reasonable
criteria.
McAleese asked, if in the public hearing portion, they could separate speaking about the
golf villas from the peninsula and speak about the golf villas first so people could feel
free to leave if they only had questions about the villas and not the peninsula.
Pentel agreed and opened the informal public hearing.
Dr. Manley Rubin, 1425 Skyline Drive, stated that he lives in the golf villas that are there
now. He stated when he purchased the lot he was told there would be one more home
built where they are now proposing 10 new golf villas. He stated that the green area that
is there now is the only green area they have and that there are a few dozen oak trees
there that will have to go for driveways and homes. He.stated that the aesthetics are
atrocious and the developers should be ashamed for trying to put ten homes when there
isn't enough room. He stated there is only one entrance and exit and the reason there is
only a one-way street being proposed is because there is no room for anything else. He
also stated he was concerned about the availability of parking. Pentel asked if he could
park two cars in his driveway. Rubin stated, yes, one behind the other, not side-by-side.
Pentel asked how the snow removal was this past winter. Rubin stated he wasn't here
this winter.
Linda Keene, 1735 Waterford Court, stated she is concerned about the width of the
street. She stated it's very difficult to get in and out of the cul-de-sac during construction
and many times they have not had their mail delivered or their trash removed. She stated
the concerns that were raised about the width of the road on the peninsula were valid.
She stated she's concerned about the impact of construction equipment going up Hidden
lakes Parkway and where they are going to put the equipment during construction. She
stated that she didn't think Hidden lakes has a good plan, during construction if there
were to be an emergency. She stated in the 11 months she's lived there, there have not
been any all homeowners meetings.
Pentel asked Grimes if he knew the width of Waterford Court. Grimes stated in order to
have parking on one side it has to be at least 22 feet wide. Grimes stated that if there is
parking on both sides of the street they should contact the Public Safety Department
because there is only supposed to be parking on one side of the street.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 13
Greg Klave, 600 Lilac Drive North, stated it would be a violation of the forest heritage
regulation to take down the 12 oaks that are the golf villa site. He also stated concerns
about the proposed homes being right next to a green way and stated there is obviously
going to be golf balls taking off into the home area. He stated that he doesn't think it's
being a good neighbor to the Theodore Wirth Golf Course to put homes so close to the
green.
Grimes stated that the sub-permit in 1997 did indicate that up to 10 additional units would
be developed at a future date and would be located in the area that is being proposed for
golf villas.
McAleese disagreed and stated that this is a new look at the PUD and we aren't
promising that it will be developed and the City can still decide. Grimes agreed, but
thought these citizens should have been on notice that there was a plan for up to 12
units and now they are proposing 10 units.
Nancy Azzam, 2300 Noble Avenue North, stated her biggest concern is water quality.
She stated over development in Golden Valley has adversely affected every water body
in the City except for Twin Lake. She stated she is against this proposal and urged the
Planning Commission to leave the area alone. She stated that Barr engineering found
that the water quality in Sweeney Lake is an unswimable level 5. She referred to the
Highway 100 project and all the environmental promises MnDot made regarding how
careful they would be in preventing erosion. She stated that they didn't keep their
promises and now massive amounts of soil have moved to Golden Valley ponds and
lakes. She talked about raw sewage being pumped into Bassett Creek due to a
construction accident. She stated there is way too much development going on in Golden
Valley and it's humanly impossible to oversee all these sites in any type of thorough way.
She then listed all of the current projects going on in the City and asked that we leave
Twin Lake the peninsula alone.
Tom Zins, 8925 23rd Avenue North, stated he was asked to come to this Planning
Commission meeting by Linda Loomis. He stated he serves on the Parks and Open
Space Commission and stated that they would like to look at the proposal and have
some formal input in the process. He stated that there has been inadequate land
dedicated for public park purposes and that this lake belongs to everybody in the City.
He stated he's concerned about the dedication being cash and not land. He stated the
bottom line in developing the peninsula is that something more needs to be done than
dedicating a few bucks and there needs to be some privilege access points for the
public. McAleese asked when the next Parks and Open Space Commission meeting is.
Zins stated their next meeting is in about a month.
Hugh Maynard, 140 Spring Valley Road, stated he's been opposed to this project for 5-6
years. He discussed the buildability of the peninsula and showed a map prepared by
land planner, Fred Hoisington four years ago that stated he looked at the setbacks and
code widths and his findings showed that only 2 houses could be built honoring the
normal setbacks. Maynard then talked about the protection of the 51 seeps and springs
shown on the plans. He stated that his neighbors hired a hydrogeologist from Hennepin
County to do an onsite investigation. He stated that the City was supposed to be given a
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 14
full environmental report and the only thing he could find in City files was the report from
February 1997. He stated that several years ago he was complaining that the dump on
the mainland might be sending contamination into the lakes and into the springs. He
stated that in 1999 the developer hired Braun Intertec who determined that the water flow
is north into Bassett Creek and therefore, the source of water for the springs is entirely
from the peninsula and not from any land east of Twin Lake. He stated that it's not
enough to just not build on top of the springs, they have to stay off the recharge area,
which is the whole peninsula. He then discussed the retaining wall and stated that it is
about 750 feet long and on the grading plans there are a number of places where they
calculated the height of the wall and the maximum height he saw was 12 feet tall. He
showed a picture of himself standing against a 12-foot high wall and showed a 12-foot
long board to illustrate the height of the retaining wall. He stated that the bottom of the
wall is wetland and there will be no trees blocking the view of the retaining wall.
Barney Rosen, 4820 Killarney Drive, stated he's enjoyed the two lakes on the peninsula
actively for 67 years. He stated it makes him sick to hear people talking about
environment and ecology and when they dig that peninsula, it's going to be a mound of
dirt. He stated that there is mud pouring into Sweeney lake in torrents from the rain we've
had and now the lake is brown. He stated a mistake was made with the ball field and
asked the commission not to make a mistake with this proposal.
Cori Of stead , 901 Parkview Terrace, stated she's been opposed the development from
the beginning. She stated she did a door-to-door petition in 1997 to see if the neighbors
wanted there to be any development of the peninsula. She stated that she got 1,028
signatures including 702 Golden Valley residents who were against any type of
development. She said the developer stated that the opposition was only from people
who lived on the lake. She showed a map indicating it wasn't just the people on the lake
who are opposed to this development, but that people in Golden Valley in general are
opposed. She stated she measured the peninsula and it went from 155 feet wide on
some lots to 210 feet wide on the widest lot and stated that the peninsula wouldn't be
wide enough to build these houses.
Glen Helgeson, 901 Parkview Terrace, stated the developer is misrepresenting
themselves to the City and to the public as to what they say they are going to do and
what they've done. He also questioned the dimensions of the peninsula and stated the
developer's measurements aren't accurate to what he has found. He recommended that
an independent study be done as to the accurate dimensions. He stated he has seen no
adequate information on the cubic feet of earth that is going to be taken out of the
peninsula and that the developer is not including the driveway or house pads in their
information. He stated that he's walked the site and questions the number of springs
shown on the plans. He stated that a PCA did find 240,000 cubic feet of contaminated
soil on the site in 1997. He stated the Planning Commission should question the
developer and study this proposal. Hoffman asked about the contaminated soil Helgeson
mentioned and stated that the developer did mention that they found asbestos on the
site. Helgeson stated they weren't providing the information from the soil borings and
stated the developer said minimal amounts of asbestos was found and questioned what
minimal means.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 15
Faith Woodman, 1420 Spring Valley Road, stated she is opposed to the development of
homes on the peninsula. She stated she has looked carefully at the grading plans
proposed by the developer and that the plans indicate that 1.65 acres will be disturbed
out of the 9.47 acres and that that's 17% of the entire peninsula.
She showed a copy of the developers grading plan and stated the grading will be
massive and if homes and driveways were included in the total percentage the amount
would perhaps be 40%. She stated that the Planning Commission and the City Council
need to know the total acres of land that will be disturbed so that they can evaluate the
adverse impact to the peninsula and to the seeps and springs.
She stated that for the Planning Commission to accurately determine the impact of
developing the peninsula the developer should prepare eight cross sections, one for
each home and one for the cul-de-sac turnaround to see how much earth is being lopped
of the top of the peninsula, how much is being excavated for basements and how much
fill is going to be added to create level pads for construction. She then showed an
example of a cross section map and discussed the earth cut away and earth filled in.
She stated that this is the most environmentally sensitive piece of property left in Golden
Valley yet, the Planning Commission is being asked to waive most of the City's zoning
and subdivision requirements and allow development without the normal safeguards
afforded development elsewhere in the City. She stated that this project would not be
good land management and should be denied.
Bob Mattison, 1120 Angelo Drive, referred to the letter he sent to the Planning
Commission and pointed out the language of the City Council resolution in 1997 that put
the conditions on the approval of the development on the peninsula. He stated he's very
upset about what's happened to Sweeney Lake and stated this development is not going
to make it any better, but there's a significant chance that it will make it worse. He stated
he's concerned that the Council is going to think that since the EAW has already been
approved, there are no other environmental things to consider. He referred to a
Minneapolis Park Board report indicating that the soils are unsuitable for building. He
stated he was in favor of the original development project, but at that time they were
developing a hospital that had been abandoned, an old dump full of refuse from the
highway, and they were taking care of an eyesore in a bad spot. He stated the peninsula
isn't that, it's just fine the way it is.
Dr. David Cline, 4700 Kilarney Drive, urged the Planning Commission to reject this
proposal and devote this land to park property.
Jean Zawistowski, 1435 Bridgewater Road, stated there is a path behind her house that
isn't a public path and that she has collected beer cans, liquor cans, used condoms and
drug paraphernalia and didn't think anyone would want that in their back yard. She stated
the lake is for everyone, and agreed there should be public access, but urged the
Planning Commission not to put a public path on the peninsula.
Steve Mahle, 1410 Spring Valley Road, stated he is opposed to the development and
urged the Planning Commission to think about their grandchildren and how they would
view the peninsula and the Planning Commissions decisions 50 years from now.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 16
Dave Fellman, 1540 St. Croix Circle, stated he was representing himself and not the
Environmental Commission or the Bassett Creek Watershed Commission. He read from
the EAW and stated the City should be bound by it. He referred to a report submitted to
the City by the Surface Water Management Committee that stated saving wetlands is a
number one priority. He referred to a model ordinance that supports the 1991 Wetlands
Conservation Act that suggests a setback of 75 feet from the edge of the wetland to the
principal structure. He referred to an e-mail he sent to Tom Hovey at the DNR in which
Mr. Hovey states he would strongly support a 75-foot wetland setback if the City
proposed one. Pentel asked if that's 75 feet from the ordinary high water mark. Fellman
stated no, it's from the edge of the wetland. He showed a picture of a silt fence along
Sweeney Lake and referred to the dirt that has built up there. He showed pictures of the
sediment in the streets that missed the ponds and water that is running over land into the
Lakes. He showed a picture of Sweeney Lake and stated the water is brown from the
sediment that's washed into the lake. He showed a picture of a pond and referred to the
EAWand stated the pond is supposed to contain 1 OO-year storm water and it isn't. He
showed a picture of the bridge to Hidden Lakes and stated there is a 40" culvert there
that is supposed to take the water out of Sweeney Lake. He stated the culvert is
completely under water and is acting like a dam. He stated he's concerned about a child
wading into the water. He referred to the developers planting plans and stated that no
plants have been put around the ponds.
Katherine Sobieck, 1400 Waterford Drive, referred to a letter she wrote to Barry
Blomquist, General Partner of Hidden Lakes Development. She also submitted
photographs which she feels evidences the lack of responsibility on the part of the
developer and the builder in this project. She urged the Planning Commission to make
some prudent decisions in further development of this project. She stated the
development of the hillside is crazy and there isn't enough land there and the traffic on
the streets would be impossible.
Celeste Shahidi, 1810 Major Drive, stated she learned to swim in Sweeney Lake and is
upset because her daughter can't swim in the Lake. She stated it's a shame to allow the
lake to deteriorate like it is and urged the Planning Commission to make a decision for
the future.
Greg Klave, 600 Lilac Drive North, stated that by allowing the peninsula to be developed
we are throwing our ecological heritage out the window and taking the Golden out of
Golden Valley. He stated it's a pristine nature area left over from the glacial period that
once covered this area. He stated he's concerned that what he sees in the planning
process seems to be more interested in protecting the developer instead of the
environment.
Michael Nelson, 1745 Bridgewater Road, stated he is in favor of the proposal. He stated
the City needs the tax base to help clean up Sweeney Lake. He stated that the developer
is not at fault for the pollution of Sweeney Lake, and that the pollution is from the
Highway 100 project. He stated he would like to see the development continue and that
the majority of the people in the development are happy with the developer and the
landscaping. He stated the two ponds near him are working fine.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 17
Pentel mentioned that the Planning Commission received two letters. One from Stephen
Passeri, 1498 Waterford Drive and one from James Assali, 1499 Waterford Drive.
Pentel closed the informal public hearing. She stated she would allow the developer to
speak to the comments that were made.
Bill Huser, borrowed Mr. Fellman's photographs and stated he is troubled by the
information that's been presented, particularly in this photographic format. He stated he
personally goes to the site virtually every day and his highest priority as project manager
for this project is making sure there is very good erosion control. He stated that over the
last four years they have been complimented by virtually every agency and every person
that deals with environmental control as having done an outstanding job on this project.
He stated he strongly disagrees with the information shown earlier intonating that the
degradation of Sweeney Lake is caused by the Hidden Lakes development. He urged
the Planning Commission, the people in the room and the people watching on TV. to talk
to people at the DNR, the watershed district, and the people who are on the Surface
Water Management Committee to get a better understanding of what the problem is. He
stated there are issues with water coming into Sweeney Lake from the south side, but
the run off is not coming from the Hidden Lakes development.
He referred to the silt fence picture that Mr. Fellman showed earlier and stated that less
than a week ago, he had Metro Erosion Control (contractor for Hidden Lakes) replace
every bit of erosion control fence on the site. He referred to the photograph of the bridge
that Mr. Fellman stated is acting like a dam and stated that water is in fact, running
through the pipe as fast as it's coming in. He stated to imply that the flooding has
something to do with the way Hidden Lakes handles their storm water is very deceptive.
He referred to the reference made to the water running over the land into the storm
management ponds and stated that that is what the water is supposed to do and that the
ponds are working as they were designed to work.
Pentel asked Huser about the amount of land that will need to be moved or excavated.
Huser stated that could be calculated and he can get the figure for the Planning
Commission. Shaffer asked for the figure for the disturbed area also. Huser stated that
couldn't be calculated as of now because they don't know the size of the houses at this
point. He stated they tried to be extremely conservative when they laid out the plans and
tried to show the extreme of what could be developed. Shaffer asked when they figured
the disturbed area if they included the footings for the retaining wall and utilities. Huser
stated that was all included in the figure. Shaffer asked about the discrepancy between
the impervious surface and the disturbed surface. Huser stated the disturbed surface
that was listed was for the installation of the roadway. The total impervious surface
calculation that was given included that roadway and an estimated amount for the homes
and driveways once they are completed.
Pentel asked what the feeling of the Commission was as to making their deliberations at
that point.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 18
McAleese stated it would be wise to hold the deliberations over to the next meeting. He
also asked if the people who had visual aids could leave them with City to allow the
Planning Commission to look at them.
Grimes asked the Commission what additional information they would like to see at the
next meeting. Pentel stated she would like to know the consequences of running the
utilities under the lake. She would like a better idea of how grading is going to happen
across the site to better understand how much land is going to be disturbed.
Hoffman asked what the time constraints are for the developers. Grimes stated the City
has to give them approval before they can begin.
Eck stated he would like to know what the impact would be on the seeps and springs on
this development will be if the recharge is on the peninsula itself and doesn't come from
offsite. Grimes stated he will review the report from Kelton Barr referred to in the informal
public hearing along with the report done in 1997 with the Public Works Director and City
Engineer.
Groger asked if Staff could do what they can to review conflicts between what was said
and what was in the staff reports and if they could have some definitive information on
which to base their opinions on.
Hoffman asked to see the park board report that Mr. Mattison referred to in the public
hearing. Grimes stated he would get the report, but stated it needs to be evaluated.
Pentel stated she would like to discuss the following issues at the next meeting: public
lands, sewage, width of the road, rain garden technique, utilities going under Twin Lake
to get to the peninsula, basement excavation, the amount of land to be moved, the
amount of disturbed area, and the height of the water table.
Grimes suggested that if the Planning Commission is concerned about park dedication
they should talk to the City Council to ask them for something from the Park and Open
Space Commission. Pentel stated she would write a letter to the Mayor and Council
asking them for information from the Park and Open Space Commission.
Pentel stated that at the next meeting she would like to take each Commissioners issues
one by one and have a public discussion, but not a public hearing. Grimes stated he was
going to ask someone from Public Works to attend the next meeting.
MOVED by Groger, seconded by Shaffer and motion carried unanimously to continue the
consideration by the Planning Commission of the PUD amendment at the May 14, 2001
meeting.
-- Short Recess --
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
April 23, 2008
Page 19
III. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
There was no discussion regarding other meetings.
IV. Other Business
A. Discussion of General Mills EAW
There was discussion of the General Mills EAWand it was decided that the Planning
Commissioners would be doing individual comments. Shaffer stated that he would not
be able to discuss General Mills items due to a conflict of interests.
B. Joint Meeting with City Council on May 21,2001
There was discussion of the joint meeting that will take place on May 21,2001 between
the City Council and the Planning Commission to discuss the PUD Ordinance
V. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 10:45 pm.