05-14-01 PC Minutes
Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall,
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
May 14, 2001. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners ECk, Groger, Hoffman,
McAleese, Rasmussen and Shaffer. Also present were Director of Planning and
Development Mark Grimes, City Planner Dan Olson, Director of Public Works Jeannine
Clancy, City Engineer Jeff Oliver and Recording Secretary Lisa Wittman.
I. Approval of Minutes - April 23, 2001 Planning Commission Meeting
Grpger stated that in the first line on page 8 the word "area" was misspelled and on
pa~e 14, second paragraph, third sentence, the second use of the word "and" should
be stricken.
MOVED by Hoffman, seconded by Eck and motion carried unanimously to approve the
April 23, 2001 minutes with the above corrections.
II. Continuation of Informal Public Hearing - Preliminary Design Plan - Hidden
lakes P.U.D. No. 74 Amendment
Applicant: Hidden Lakes Development, LP
Address: Block 5 and Block 9, Outlots F and M, Hidden Lakes PUD No. 74,
Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The P.U.D. would allow for the construction of 7 single family
homes on Block 5, and 10 single family villa homes on Block 9,
Outlots F and M.
Pentel stated that she would like to have a discussion on the specific items that the
commissioners had questions about from the previous public hearing.
Grimes stated that Public Works Director Jeannine Clancy, City Engineer Jeff Oliver
and Ray Wuolo from Barr Engineering were present to act as a resource to answer any
questions the Planning Commission might have.
Pentel stated she wanted to learn more about the process of running the utilities under
the lake and the sewage system that's required in this type of development and the
capacity of the system that is currently located under the bridge. Jeff Oliver stated that
the existing system there now is an old, private system with a small 6" service, which is
smaller than the currentminimum accepted sanity sewer for a gravity sewer, so it does
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May 14, 2001
Page 2
need to be replaced. He stated that as far as installing the utilities under a water body it
is a very common practice. He stated that a carrier pipe is placed under the water body
and the new utilities are slid through with access on either end to allow for repairing and
replacing. He stated it is the same type of process that is done with highways, major
roadways and railroad tracks. Pentel asked if the system would go underneath the lake
or if lies on the bottom of the lake. Oliver stated it would go underneath the bed of the
lake. Pentel asked how that is done. Oliver stated it is done with augering or directional
boring. Groger asked if it was the same technology that was used to go underneath
Bassett Creek at the entrance to the Hidden Lakes Development and asked if there
have been any problems with that. Oliver stated there have been no problems.
Shaffer asked about the City's wetland regulations. Oliver stated that the City of Golden
Valley has adopted the Wetland Conservation Act. Shaffer asked what the setbacks are
for wetlands. Oliver stated that there is no specific wetland setbacks outlined in the
Wetland Conservation Act but stated that they do encourage a 16 1/2-foot buffer zone,
either created or existing, around wetlands.
Pentel asked about the proposed rain gardens and referred to the materials they
received stating that rain gardens are a useful technique so that water is being treated
not far from where it lands. She stated in this particular proposal it sounds like the water
will be piped from the south end of the peninsula fairly far to the first rain garden that
sits along the east side of the peninsula. She asked how the piping system compared to
an open swale and the capacity the wetland is going to have to have for different rain
events. Oliver stated that rain gardens are an emerging technology in water quality
treatment. He stated rain gardens are a modified infiltration basin for storm water. He
stated there are pros and cons to the proposed rain gardens, but given the constraints
and the ability to locate the rain gardens where they are proposed, with minimal impact
to vegetation and trees, and staying outside the wetland limits, he thinks it's a
modification that works well.
Pentel asked about the individual sewage pumping systems that are needed for homes
to be developed on the peninsula. Oliver stated that in order to reduce the extreme
deep cuts that would be required through the high point on the peninsula for installation
of gravity sanitary sewer, the developer approached the Public Works Department with
a request to install low pressure, individual force mains or grinder pumps and force
mains that can follow the same alignment as water mains which are 7 % to 8 feet
underground which can change elevation with the contour. He stated the manufacturer
of the product came in and met with him and presented information and performance
curves and it appears they would work satisfactorily. Oliver stated he's requested that
the developer contact the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency and the Metropolitan
Council Environmental Services to find out if there are any specific regulations
regarding individual sanitary sewer treatment systems or conveyance systems in a fully
sewered community.
He stated he has not yet heard from the regulatory agencies but it appears that this
technology will greatly reduce the amount of area that needs to be disturbed or
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May 14, 2001
Page 3
excavated in order to install the utility. Instead of a 15-foot wide trench to install the
proposed low-pressure force mains gravity system, the City would probably be looking
at a trench somewhere between 40 and 60 feet wide through the high point on the
peninsula. He stated that anytime there is work close to a water body there are
additional concerns for erosion. He stated that he feels the proposal put forth by the
developer addresses that issue well.
Hoffman referred to the rain garden plans that they received from the developer and
asked if the plants mentioned were what grew best in that area or if they are designed
to protect the lake. Oliver stated his understanding of rain gardens is that it is ideal to
plant water friendly vegetation and that will help allow water to infiltrate.
Shaffer stated that the way the current development is set up all the streets are on
outlots with easements over them for city utilities. On the peninsula they've divided it up
into seven parcels and the road will go straight through them, which means the City will
have an easement over the lots to gain access. He asked if an outlot for the road would
be better way of dealing with that. Oliver stated that from a roadway maintenance
perspective, the City of Golden Valley would not be involved. The roads are owned and
maintained by the Hidden Lakes Association. He stated the easements the City has
over the property are for utility purposes and to allow access to the utilities.
Shaffer asked who controls the individual grinder pumps. Oliver stated that the
individual lift stations in each home would be the responsibility of each homeowner. He
stated that that there are check valves that will prevent backflowinto the homes and his
understanding is that the system will shut down if there is a plug. He stated the
manufacturer has indicated that there is a very low incidence of plugging due to the
type of system. He stated the individual homeowners would own the pumps themselves
and the developer has indicated that the homeowners association would keep several
additional pumps in stock if an individual pump failed.
Pentel stated that the width of the road on the south end of the peninsula measures 16
feet to the outside of the curbs, which makes the width of the road 14.feet. She asked if
the City thinks that width would be sufficient for emergency vehicles and if it could
handle the traffic it will be required to handle. Oliver stated that based upon the
extremely low trip generation it is acceptable, however during the winter months it will
be difficult.
Pentel asked about the need to have a building permit for the retaining wall and stated
she was concerned about sticking with the City's regulations in terms of not building
structures closer than 75 feet to the ordinary high water line.
She asked why a 12-foot high retaining wall that requires a building permit is not
considered a structure and is allowed to be at the 50-foot setback. Oliver stated the
primary reason the retaining wall is classified as a structure and requires a building
permit is because it's over 4 feet high and in order to ensure the integrity and to make
sure it is built and engineered properly it would require a building permit. Pentel asked if
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May 14, 2001
Page 4
there were other structures that require a building permit that aren't considered
"structures". Oliver gave the example of decks and bridges and stated these require
permits, but are not occupied, primary structures. He stated retaining walls are installed
immediately adjacent to water bodies very frequently all over the country. Pentel asked
Oliver if he was comfortable with the fact that the base of the retaining wall sits right at
the 1 OO-year flood mark. Oliver stated that if the wall is designed and constructed
properly that it's not a problem.
Rasmussen asked what the definition of disturbed land is and why it's of critical
importance on the peninsula. Oliver stated that the definition of disturbed land as it
relates to a development project is an area that needs to be graded and where the
contour or profile of the earth is changed or altered. He stated others might argue that it
means anything that is not entirely in its native state or is disturbed. He stated there is a
threshold level for disturbed area for water quality improvements in compliance with the
water quality policy of the Bassett Creek Watershed and with the Minnesota Pollution
Control Agency. He stated in this case if it exceeds % an acre it would pass that
threshold. Rasmussen asked if the area that would be trenched for utilities would be
considered disturbed Oliver stated that area would be considered disturbed during the
infrastructure phase of development and the area in and around the building pads on
the individual lots would be considered disturbed during the time of custom grading for
the home construction. Rasmussen asked if it's returned to its original grade and the
trenches are covered over if it's not considered disturbed anymore. Oliver stated it's
then considered restored.
Pentel stated that the City has decided in this instance to adopt the DNR Shoreland rule
requiring the lots to be 40,000 square feet and asked why the City is not then taking the
DNR rule into account stating that structures should be no more than 25 feet high in a
shoreland impact area. Oliver stated that his understanding of the shoreland ordinance
which the City of Golden Valley has adopted says, eventually we will be required to
adopt the height rule, but that now the DNR just works with cities and asks that cities
comply, they don't require that all cities comply with all aspects of the ordinance.
Grimes added that he spoke with the City Attorney and his opinion is that the City has
an adopted shoreland ordinance, which met the requirements of the Department of
Natural Resources. He stated that the DNR has rules and regulations now, but the City
is not subject to those rules because we already have an adopted ordinance.
Pentel referred to the cross sections of the various houses and asked about the
excavation of the basements in regards to disturbed land.
Oliver stated any time there is excavation done, in order to have a safe working
environment, there is typically over excavation done larger than the footprint of the
home. He stated that in this situation they would have the ability to review individual
grading plans for each home as the building permit is applied for because these lots are
not mass graded. Pentel asked if the developer would be required to build the lots in
any kind of a sequence such as requiring them to start at the south end. Oliver stated
he's not aware of those types of restrictions being applied, but that the market and time
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May 14, 2001
Page 5
schedules would be what would drive the building sequence. He stated that the
Commission could discuss and recommend those kinds of restrictions.
Groger referred to the retaining wall and the additional two feet of the wall that extends
above the retaining wall itself as a barrier for traffic. He asked if there is a need for the
additional two feet of wall or if it could be accomplished with a curb or railing to
minimize the impact of the retaining wall, or if the wall is necessary in order to make
sure that any water run-off is diverted in the proper direction. Oliver stated that any run-
off that falls on the roadway itself would be captured within the roadway and would flow
into the storm sewer system and be delivered to the rain gardens. He stated that the
wall would help direct additional run-off into the street, but it is not necessary for that
purpose. He stated that barrier is there as a crash barrier, however, there are numerous
other forms of barriers that would meet the safety requirements.
Pentel referred to the grading plan and asked if precipitation is going to somehow be
directed to the fronts of the homes so that all of the water can go into the street to be
captured. Oliver stated that they can strive to capture the run-off through the custom
grading process and through the home design itself, but he stated with certainty that it
would be impossible to get all the run-off from the roofs of the homes directed to the
street.
Pentel asked if there was supposed to be native planting around the ponds that are on
the property now. Oliver stated he did not believe that was a requirement of the original
PUD.
Groger asked for clarification on the lot size requirement of 40,000 square feet. Grimes
stated that the PUD permit requires that the lots meet the requirements of the
shoreland regulation (20,000 square feet) and that the average size of the lots be twice
that size.
Rasmussen asked for clarification on how the retaining wall would be screened.
Grimes stated that it's his understanding that the wall will be a poured, textured wall
with a neutral color so it blends in and doesn't draw attention to it. He stated there
would be some natural landscaping along the wall as well.
Pentel referred to page 4 of the seeps and springs hydrology report from Barr
Engineering and asked about the view that the source of the seeps is from wetlands to
the south of the peninsula. She asked how certain we are the excavations for the
basements and roads are not going to somehow hit the water table and if they have to
do some dynamic compaction to make sure they will have a stable surface. Oliver
stated compaction under the building pads and roadways can be accomplished with
routine back filling and compaction methods. He stated density tests are required in
disturbed areas and trenches to minimize the threats of any future settlements. Pentel
asked if there have been any properties in the Hidden Lakes Development that have
had issues with slippage of their foundations. Oliver stated that he didn't know of any,
but the building official would be the best person to answer that question.
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Page 6
Pentel asked about the seeps and springs and wanted to discuss the various theories
of how water moves through the area. Ray Wuolo, Geohydrologist, Barr Engineering,
who has been hired by the City stated that there are two theories on how the seeps and
springs exist. The first theory is that the infiltration on the peninsula itself is responsible
solely for the seeps and springs. He stated he didn't think that it was in dispute that all
the water that infiltrates on the peninsula finds its way to the lake and that a portion of
the seeps and springs probably derives some of its from water from infiltration on the
peninsula. He stated what is at question is whether all the seep and spring flow is from
infiltration on the peninsula or if there is another source. He stated the consultant for
the developer has another hypothesis that a portion of the water source is coming from
wetlands to the south of Sweeney and Twin Lakes with flow approximately in a north or
northeast direction and into the peninsula and discharged into the lakes. He referred to
a graph that showed the concept that all the infiltration on the peninsula is responsible
for the seeps. He stated that the infiltration on the peninsula is probably making its way
as seeps and springs and it's also probably making its way into the lake as flow
underneath the lake level or at the lake level that is not seen as seeps and springs.
Wuolo showed another graph showing infiltration falling on the ground surface where
some of the infiltration, as in the other concept, infiltrates into the ground and makes its
way to the water table, but some of it ponds up in wetlands where it stays wet most of
the year and seeps into the ground at a constant rate and provides an area of
mounding underneath the wetlands that can drive flow for some distance. He stated
there are merits to both hypotheses. He stated that there are some things indicated in
his studies that show this is occurring to some extent. One of the things is that the water
chemistry of the seeps and springs shows a high iron content which indicates that either
it's had a long time underground where it can lose its oxygen and dissolve iron or
because there is a lot of organic material in the area in which it flows. He stated that his
indications show it's because the water has a long flow path.
He stated that when he first looked at the idea that the wetlands would contribute to the
seeps and springs he thought that was a bit farfetched because regional ground water
flow in this part of Hennepin County is west to east toward the Mississippi River and the
flow would have to be more south to north. He stated when he did further studies he did
find some flow that would go to Sweeney Lake and Twin Lake. He stated that there are
still some outstanding issues as to whether or not the flow makes it all the way up to the
central part of the peninsula and then discharges to areas where the seeps and springs
occur.
Pentel asked with all the development south of Highway 55 if he thought there were
areas that would be causing the infiltration. Wuolo stated there are wetlands in that
area that have been identified and referred to two particular wetlands that have ponded
water most of the year and stated they could be two potential sources for water that
could be infiltrated.
Eck referred to the proposed villa homes and stated he doesn't have nearly the concern
about that area as he does about development on the peninsula. He stated
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May 14, 2001
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development on block 9 was anticipated because there is development all around it
already.
Pentel stated she is concerned about the loss of trees and green space in the upland
area. She stated she mourns the loss of the oak trees and the little bit of vista that
exists and stated there may be some future issues with the homes being in line with golf
balls from Theodore Wirth Park but that one positive thing about the homes being
proposed is that there is some off street parking provided. She agreed with Eck in that it
is not as disturbing as development on the peninsula.
McAleese stated that the developer could do better, visually, than lining the homes up
in a row. He stated he was struck by the irony that one of the reasons they are lined up
in a row is because of utilities that are immediately in front of the properties that don't
easily allow the homes to be staggered and in a sense it belies the concept of a
Planned Unit Development and that the planning of a couple of years ago has resulted
in the forcing of these homes to line up in a row. Grimes stated there are different
elevations and the homes will follow the topography of the land and there will be vertical
changes in the elevations.
Shaffer stated he is not in favor of the houses being in a straight line and that it is kind
of ironic because now the houses are just stuck there and it's not possible to move
them around. He stated it's not much different from the original carriage home plan that
was proposed in 1997 except now there will be ten feet between them instead of zero
so in some way that is better.
Groger stated originally the plan allowed for twelve homes, so ten does seem
reasonable and there are some trees that will be saved.
Pentel stated she would like commissioners to make comments about the peninsula
development and figure out what kind of recommendation the Commission would like to
make to the City Council.
Eck stated that he sincerely believes that the developer is proposing to put the seven
large single family homes on the peninsula through the use of such devices as a narrow
street, retaining walls, rain gardens and conservation easements, in a manner that is as
environmentally responsible as it is possible to be and still achieve his objective. He
stated he believes the developer wants the development to be a credit to the City, and
to the surrounding property owners.
Eck stated that although the language of the PUD Ordinance does not specifically
preclude it's application to large single family homes on sizeable lots, it seems clear to
him that the intent of the residential application of this ordinance is to facilitate the
construction of higher than normal density residential structures on designated parcels
of land to provide alternative types of housing or land use to meet community housing
goals such as affordable, minimum maintenance, or life cycle housing. He stated that
he does recognize that in the currently developed area of the PUD, there are a number
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May 14, 2001
Page 8
of large and very expensive homes on sizeable lots, but they are contained within or are
on the perimeter of the main area of the PUD, adjacent to much higher density
homesites. He stated Block 5, the "peninsula" is sufficiently removed from the rest of
the PUD and should be considered as a separate area and be judged on its own merits.
He stated that although a developer is entitled to reasonable economic development of
his land, the peninsula is a very environmentally and aesthetically controversial piece of
property, and its development must be carefully considered.
Eck stated that after careful review of all the input he has received on this project, it
does not seem proper to him that the PUD Ordinance should be used to facilitate the
construction of large, single family homes in a sensitive area, which would not
otherwise be possible if conventional zoning code standards were applied. He stated
there is clearly a benefit to the developer, but questioned what, other than property tax
revenue, is the benefit to the City of permitting this development and questioned what
housing goals were being fulfilled.
Eck referred to the recent request to the Planning Commission to approve the use of
the PUD Ordinance to permit a higher than normal density of expensive single family
homes to be built on the Lions Park Development property at Harold and Louisiana
Avenues, and the commission voted unanimously against it as an improper application
of the PUD Ordinance. The developer subsequently changed the density to conform to
standard zoning requirements.
He stated that although the illustration is not an exact parallel to the peninsula situation,
given the size of the proposed lots on the peninsula, the principal involved is the same.
He recognized that there is already one home on the peninsula that has been there for
many years and stated it is not his intent to deny all further development opportunity,
but the City should recommend approval only of what can be accomplished without the
use of, or with only the most minimal use of the PUD Ordinance.
Groger stated he understands Eck's comments but stated it's not an isolated parcel of
land and he doesn't see how it can be viewed as a separate PUD because it is not. He
stated the commission is in an awkward position because of the actions in 1997 when
the PUD was in some respects approved with this parcel as part of it. He stated he
thinks the decision that was made in 1997 somewhat constrains the Commission based
upon the criteria that were placed by the City Council and the conditions that were
placed upon further approval of development on the peninsula.
Groger stated he has struggled with his decision and would like to preserve the
peninsula in its entirety, but stated that they need to look at the conditions set forth in
1997 and see what is reasonable for development on the peninsula as it says in the
City Council minutes from June of 1997. He stated this is private property and the
owner does have some rights to use that property. He stated the peninsula is a place
he would hate to see lost, but feels that it is possible to have some development and
still be environmently cautious and protect the integrity of the lakes and minimize its
impact.
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May 14, 2001
Page 9
Groger stated he's not totally opposed to development, but would be in favor of the
proposal with some restrictions and some changes including, minimizing the height of
the retaining wall to four feet, changing the road width to 20 feet for safety and a height
restriction for whatever is built to minimize the visual impact. He stated that some
restrictions may reduce the number of lots that can be developed, but thinks that the
City's actions in 1997 in some ways obligated the commission to seriously consider
development as long as the developer met the conditions set forth by the Council. He
stated for the City to have told the developer that they should go ahead with the
development of the rest of the PUD and the City would then look at the development of
the peninsula once they've done all these other things and then for the City to pull it
back and say no, we're not going to let you develop the peninsula would not be fair. He
stated that if the City had no intention of allowing development on the peninsula they
should have said so in 1997. He stated he feels some obligation to work with the
developer to approve something that is reasonable and he would be in favor of the
proposal with some further conditions.
McAleese stated that he thinks the peninsula is part of the overall PUD and in this case
the argument is strong that this does qualify as a PUD.
He stated he disagrees with Groger because this proposal is an amendment, and under
Subd. 12 of the City's PUD Ordinance, it is like starting over with the PUD. He stated
the City didn't make any promises in 1997 that development could occur on the
peninsula, but the City did state they would consider certain things in the future and that
is what's being done.
McAleese stated that he feels development on the peninsula is really a stupid idea, but
developers can do things that he finds to be stupid and they have an absolute right to
do that. He stated development of a limited sort is appropriate on the peninsula, but the
development that is being proposed is a little more dense then what it ought to be. He
stated he favors a strict application of the standards that are set in the shoreland
ordinance and would require the 75-foot structure setback and he thinks the proposed
retaining wall qualifies as a structure under the City's zoning code and that they ought
to push the wall back which would make a couple of the proposed lots not so
developable. He stated, because of the unique situation, the City should apply very
strict standards and stated the developer could go to the Board of Zoning Appeals and
apply for variances.
McAleese stated he's not comfortable with the plans that have been proposed but feels
the conditions that were set forth in 1997 have been met. He stated he felt the rain
gardens were a very good idea, but it's hard to find detailed information because it is
such a new tool, so the City needs to make sure that the rain gardens can adequately
handle the water. He stated there should be some mechanism in place that assures
they are working the way the City wants them to be working. He stated the roads are
fairly narrow, and would favor at least 20-foot wide roads. He stated that if the height is
limited too much there starts to be sprawl of the structure. He stated he favors
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May 14, 2001
Page 10
somehow controlling what gets built, but is not sure height restrictions will solve the
visual impact problem.
Shaffer stated that one of the things he looks at when he reviews a PUD is how it's
approached. He referred to the Lions Park Development where they wanted a PUD,
but the Commission thought they could do it under standard zoning if they did it
correctly. He stated that the developer for the peninsula just sliced it up into seven
pieces, making sure they had the average 40,000 square foot lot size and protected a
few trees as a token gesture to the City. He stated concern that the developer went
about it in such a way to fit within what he considered the critical aspects of our zoning
code and to push the other aspects.
Shaffer referred to the City's Shoreland Ordinance where it states roads and parking
areas should meet a setback of 75 feet from the Ordinary High Water Line where
feasible and practical.
He stated the developer took feasible and practical to mean that in this case it's not
feasible and practical because they couldn't get seven lots in if they did that. He stated
he did some math to using the 75-foot setback, 20-foot roadway and 20-foot setback
from the road to the houses and found that he came up with about 5 buildable lots. He
stated that the PUD Ordinance is there to protect something for the City, or to give
something to the City, not just for tax dollars and seems to him that this is just the
developer trying to fit seven lots onto a small piece of land.
Shaffer stated one of the things he asked for from the developer, which they didn't
really get, was a plan showing how much of the peninsula was actually going to be
graded and moved around. He stated that if the peninsula was laid out into all the
areas that were going to be destroyed, it would be so massive people would be
amazed. He stated that part of his review of the PUD is to ask, is this going to have a
negative impact upon the City of Golden Valley and he thinks this proposal will by
allowing certain things to happen from the developer's standpoint and not from the
City's standpoint. He stated the developer provided lots of information, but took the
approach that they were trying to get as much as they can instead of doing something
good.
Rasmussen stated she believes the 1997 language did lead the Planning Commission
in the direction of supporting some development on the peninsula. She stated the
developer has satisfied the requirements and has made great attempts to make sure
development is done in an environmentally sound way. She stated every standard
should be applied very strictly. She stated she is concerned about the height of the
buildings and stated she looks at this property as a buffer between the intense
development in the main section of Hidden Lakes and the rest of Golden Valley. She
stated concerns about the roadway and stated it is minimally adequate and it should be
setback to the required amount. She stated she could probably support a four or five
home development on the peninsula, which would be enough to develop it but would
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May 14, 2001
Page 11
not disturb as much land as the current proposal. She stated her specific concerns
could be addressed by strictly applying the rules.
Hoffman stated that he read the Council minutes from 1997 and they were very specific
about what the developer needed to do. He stated this property could generate over
one million dollars in tax revenue and hoped that this money could help improve the
area. He stated he is also concerned about the width of the road. He stated he favors
going ahead with the project.
Pentel stated the Council did indicate that there would be some development that would
be looked at on the peninsula. She stated she could not support this proposal and
would not vote in favor of this PUD amendment. She stated she's concerned about the
roadway and the setbacks and sees it as pushing the envelope in a very sensitive area.
She stated having the road set 50 feet from the ordinary high water mark is not
appropriate and that 75 feet is more appropriate. She stated that having three houses
on the north end would not cause too much disturbance to the entire peninsula and
stated that she appreciated the developer setting aside the lot with the grove of oak
trees. She stated the rain gardens are a wonderful idea but is concerned about the
piping of water before it is allowed to infiltrate. She is concerned about the rebuilding of
the bridge and stated that the staff report mentioned that the bridge would be tested to
see how strong it was going to be but then the applicant came forward and talked about
a new bridge being built. She stated she's disturbed with the amount of grading that
would have to take place and suggested sticking with the 25-foot height restriction. She
stated she agreed with Eck in that it's not clear what the benefit is to the City. She
stated that she doesn't feel the need to have any public property on the peninsula and
sees no problem with having the land be private. She stated that the proposal before
them has too many homes and it would be violating too many zoning and setback
ordinances.
Groger stated that the one of the conditions from the Council minutes from 1997
specifically states that the 50-foot setback will be maintained and asked if it now would
be a problem to change that recommendation to a 75-foot setback. Pentel stated the
Commission is not changing what the Council said, they are making their own
recommendation to the City Council and that the Planning Commission does not have
to lock step with what the Council does. Shaffer stated he feels the 75-foot setback is
the requirement, not the 50-foot setback and referred to the shoreland ordinance.
Grimes referred to the Area 8 project and stated the City used retaining walls that are
within the shoreland setback area in that instance to allow for the development to occur.
Paula agreed but stated that development is bringing the City affordable housing, is a
mixed use development with commercial and is meeting other City objectives.
Groger stated he was thinking that the commissioners are in agreement about some
development and that there isn't a huge difference in thinking. Shaffer stated the
developer would have to come back with new plans in order to define a
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May 14, 2001
Page 12
recommendation to the Council. Grimes stated that one option would be to ask the
developer if they would like the opportunity to redesign their plans based on the
Commission's feedback and come back, or that they could just vote one way or the
other. Groger asked which option would be most helpful to the Council. Grimes stated
that the more information they could give the better.
Hoffman asked if it were possible to break the recommendation into two parts, the golf
villas and the peninsula. Pentel stated that it should be left as one and it should be
noted they don't have issues with the golf villas, just the peninsula.
McAleese stated he tends to favor an up or down vote and that the best approach is to
express their views and why they feel the way they do and to bump the proposal up to
the decision makers.
MOVED by Hoffman, seconded by Groger to approve the preliminary design plan of
Hidden Lakes PUD No. 74 Amendment One. Commissioners McAleese, Pentel,
Rasmussen, Shaffer and Eck voted against the proposal.
II. Informal Public Hearing - General land Use Plan Map Amendment (Z021-
08) and Property Rezoning (Z013-05)
Applicant: Golden Valley Lutheran Church
Address: 5431 Glenwood Avenue; 21 Turners Crossroad South; east half of
Turners Crossroad South adjacent to these two lots, all in Golden
Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant is requesting to change the General Land Use Plan
Map for 5431 Glenwood Avenue and for 21 Turners Crossroad
South from Low Density Residential to Schools and Religious
Facilities. For the east half of Turners Crossroads South adjacent
to these two lots, the applicant is requesting to change the General
Land Use Plan Map from a vacated right-of-way to Schools and
Religious Facilities.
The applicant is requesting to rezone the properties at 5431
Glenwood Avenue and for 21 Turners Crossroad South from
Residential to Institutional (1-1). For the east half of Turners
Crossroads South adjacent to these two lots, the applicant is
requesting to rezone the property from a vacated right-of-way to
Institutional (1-1).
Olson referred to his memo dated May 9, 2001 and showed a location map of the site.
He stated the proposal is to rezone two parcels of land adjacent to the church from
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 13
Residential to Institutional (1-1) and to change the General Land Use Plan map from
Low Density Residential to Schools and Religious Facilities. He gave some background
on the properties and stated that the two adjacent lots were formally the sites of two
single family homes. The lots were purchased by the City as part of the Xenia Avenue
reconstruction and in 1999 both of the homes were demolished by the City and the
property is now being sold to the Church to be used in the future as a parking lot.
Pentel asked if the parking lot would have access off of Glenwood Avenue. Grimes
stated that it doesn't have access off of Glenwood and stated it was reconverted to a
sidewalk and all the access would come off at Turners Crossroad.
Hoffman asked if the resident located adjacent to the property on Turnpike Road had
been notified of this public hearing. Olson stated yes, they were notified. Hoffman
asked if the Church knew when Xenia Avenue was formed that these lots were going to
become available.
Director of Public Works, Jeannine Clancy stated that Mr. Dick Remdy, a representative
from the Church was on the Xenia Avenue Advisory Committee and stated that the
property was purchased by the City for several reasons. She stated there was
discussion about building a pedestrian bridge over Glenwood Avenue. There was a
need for transit facilities and the City wanted to completely sever the connection
between Turners Crossroad and Glenwood Avenue and wanted to also create a berm
to guide all pedestrians to the intersection of Xenia and Glenwood. She stated that
when the pedestrian bridge was not recommended to the City Council by the advisory
committee, the two lots became remnant parcels. She stated the City looked at the
parcels to determine what the most appropriate use for these lots was and stated that
since they don't want access on Glenwood and they want to protect the berm and want
to protect all the pedestrian facilities and all of the work they did to guide people to the
intersection at Xenia and Glenwood there was very few uses that were acceptable.
One was to adjoin it with the adjacent property and one was to adjoin it to the Church.
The Church came to the City and asked if we would be interested in selling it to them.
Pentel asked when this property becomes a parking lot if there would be a berm or
screening required to protect the residential uses abutting this parking lot. Olson stated
there is nothing in the City Code that would require screening, however one resident
has requested screening.
Hoffman asked if the Church intended to build anything on the lots in the future. Olson
stated the Church has indicated that at this time, they intend to leave it as open space
and eventually they hope to make it a parking lot. Grimes stated one of the issues is
that there are utilities in the Old Turners Crossroad right-of~way that have to be
maintained, so there can be no construction over those utilities. Grimes stated there is
a strict setback requirement of 50 feet from any institutional use to a residential use and
no parking lot can come any closer than 25 feet to a residential use and that it has to be
a landscaped area.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 14
Groger asked if the lots are currently buildable. Grimes stated it would be pretty difficult
because of the setback requirements. Groger asked if the City foresees a lot
consolidation ultimately on these lots.
Clancy stated that one of the difficulties with these lots, even if they're consolidated,
and if they are not associated with the church use, or with the single family home to the
east of these properties on Glenwood is that they are not going to be provided access
off of Glenwood, so they would have to gain access to the private access off of Turners
Crossroads that goes into the church.
Pentel asked the applicant, Dick Remdy, what the Church's ultimate plans are for this
property. Remdy stated that right now they have no long term plans to develop the
property and stated that with the closing of Turners Crossroad they expanded their
parking by about 40 spots. He stated that long term they may need the land for
additional parking, but right now they intend to keep it green space.
Pentel asked if the property were to be developed into a parking lot if it would be a
problem for the church to provide screening for the adjacent neighbors even though it
isn't a regulation. Remdy stated he didn't think it would be a problem to provide some
kind of screening or plantings.
Rasmussen questioned why there aren't any screening requirements for when a
parking lot abuts a residential area. Grimes stated that there are just setback
requirements, but if it were a new development, they would have to show a landscape
plan to the Building Board of Review.
Pentel opened the informal public hearing.
Diana Dearring, 5 Turnpike Road, stated that her property is right below the two lots in
the proposal. She stated that she is concerned about the moving of the land and stated
that when construction was being done on Turners Crossroad her house was moving
and shaking and now she has water problems. She stated she is very much against the
proposal and is concerned about the aesthetic value and the property value of her
house if it looks out onto a parking lot and she's concerned about how the parking lot
would drain.
Larry Klick, 5415 Glenwood, also representing Charles Clark, 5405 Glenwood stated he
sees three possible solutions for the proposed property. One is the Church and the only
flaw he sees with that is that if there isn't a moratorium on any kind of construction the
people in the neighborhood are going to be upset. He stated the new sidewalk and
berm that were just put in last fall would have to go if the church puts in a parking lot.
The second solution is residential with access and driveway on the vacated Turners
Crossroad. He stated it doesn't make sense to take out a corner lot for a parking lot or a
building. He stated the third option is to leave it as green space and he said the City
took the green space across the street and is now building gymnasiums.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 15
Pentel asked what portion of the driveway into the Church does the Church own.
Clancy stated the west half of Turners Crossroad has been vacated and has gone to
the Church. The east half of Turners Crossroad has been vacated up to 220 feet south
of Glenwood and that has been vacated to the properties in questions. She stated
Hennepin County and Staff would not support a separate access to Glenwood.
Frances Nemet, 5423 Glenwood stated she is very opposed to a parking lot and stated
when the City built Xenia Avenue she was told in letters and in conversations it was
going to be green space.
Diana Dearring, 5 Turnpike Road, stated she wanted existing homes to have the same
screening and buffering zoning regulations that are applied to new developments.
Pentel asked if this was a case of the City trying to sell these lots. Clancy stated no, the
Church approached the City to buy these lots.
Pentel closed the informal public hearing.
Groger asked if residents were told when the Xenia Avenue project was done that these
lots would remain green space. Clancy stated she didn't recall. Shaffer stated the only
thing he recalled was that the property was purchased by the City because of the
potential pedestrian overpass, which would have used that area.
Clancy clarified that the purchase agreement that it currently being considered has a
permanent easement over the area so that the improvements made such as the berm,
sidewalk and transit improvements made would be maintained. Clancy referred to the
map and showed where the improvements were made.
Groger asked what the width of these lots is. Clancy stated they are about 100 feet long
and about 15,000 square feet. Groger asked if the setback for parking lots along
residential property lines is 25 feet. Grimes stated yes and the ordinance requires that
the setback area be landscaped.
Pentel asked if a developer had come forward to the Council and suggested putting in a
house that would have been on the tax roles, if that offer would have been entertained.
Rasmussen stated it was prudent for the Church to want the vacant property next to
them. She asked if the City was currently maintaining the property. Grimes stated yes.
Pentel asked if the purchase agreement goes through, would the Church be required to
maintain the easement area or if the City would still maintain the easement area.
Clancy stated the Church would maintain the easement area, but the City would
maintain the sidewalk, as is required by the sidewalk policy.
She stated she wanted to make it clear that the purchase agreement was subject to the
purchaser receiving rezoning on the property.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 16
McAleese asked if the property were not rezoned and it remained residential in
character, could anything be built on that property, under our zoning code without any
problems and if it met the other requirements of the residential portion of the zoning
code. Grimes stated all lots have to have frontage on a public street. He stated he
would have to talk to the City Attorney about that, but the City has given up the right to
have access on Glenwood.
Rasmussen stated that it seems like the proposal is a bad idea to her and that it would
be nice to leave the area as green space. Grimes stated this is happening more and
more to churches in Golden Valley. They need to expand their parking as they grow, so
if they want to stay in Golden Valley they are going to need additional parking.
Groger asked if the Church would have to do a lot consolidation because the parking lot
would go over the lot line. Grimes stated that they can't build a structure over the
property line, but a parking lot is not considered a structure
Pentel stated she feels for the neighbors and stated that if the property was advertised
by the City as green space it should be rezoned as green space. She stated she is not
in favor of the proposed rezoning and as institutions expand they get closer to
neighborhoods.
Shaffer stated he also feels for the neighbors, but he is looking at the long-term aspects
of the proposal and likes the idea of trying to keep churches in Golden Valley. He stated
he would be in favor of the proposal.
Eck asked for clarification from the Church on their parking requirements. The
representative from the church stated they had no plans to develop the two lots into a
parking lot, but Grimes stated sometimes the parking lot is full and they have to park on
the street.
Remdy stated that occasionally there is an overlap in services but generally the parking
right now is fine. Eck stated that it seems to him to be a logical use for the proposed
property and supports the proposal.
Rasmussen stated she is not in favor of the proposal because she thinks the neighbors
deserve some degree of certainty.
MOVED by Hoffman, seconded by Groger to approve revising the General Land Use
Plan Map from Low Density Residential to Schools and Religious Facilities for the
properties located at 5431 Glenwood Avenue and 21 Turners Crossroad South and
from Right of Way to Schools and Religious Facilities for the property located at east
half of Turners Crossroad South adjacent to 5431 Glenwood Avenue and 21 Turners
Crossroad and to approve rezoning the properties located at 5431 Glenwood Avenue
and 21 Turners Crossroad South from Residential to Institutional (1-1) and the property
located at the east half of Turners Crossroad South adjacent to 5431 Glenwood Avenue
and 21 Turners Crossroad from Right of Way to Institutional (1-1). Commissioners
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 17
McAleese, Groger, Eck, Shaffer and Hoffman voted in favor of the proposal,
Commissioners Rasmussen and Pentel voted against the proposal.
V. Informal Public Hearing - Zoning Code Text Amendment
Applicant: Premier Investments, LLC
Address: Light Industrial Zoning Districts, Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant is requesting to add "Trade schools or Training
Centers" as a Conditional Use to the City's Light Industrial zoning
districts.
Olson discussed his memo dated May 9,2001. He stated that currently trade schools
are allowed as a permitted use in the Commercial Zoning District and as a Conditional
Use in the Industrial Zoning District. He stated that at this point it is only a zoning code
text amendment and if it is approved the applicant would have to apply for a Conditional
Use Permit. He stated the applicant is proposing to open a dental academy and that the
parking spaces currently there would be adequate for that use. He stated that staff is
recommending approval of this proposal.
Hoffman asked what the hours of operation would be. Dan stated he thought there were
day and evening classes but didn't think the classes would go past 8:00 or 9:00 pm.
McAleese clarified that the Commission isn't discussing the specific school at this time,
they are just discussing the changing of the Zoning Code to allow this use.
Pentel opened the informal public hearing. Seeing and hearing no one Pentel closed
the public hearing.
MOVED by Hoffman, seconded by Eck and motion carried unanimously to approve the
Zoning Code text amendment as purposed.
VI. Informal Public Hearing - Preliminary Design Plan - KQRS, Inc. - P.U.D. No.
93
Applicant: KQRS, Inc. - ABC, Inc.
Address: Lot 1, Block 1, KQRS 2nd Addition (917 North Lilac Drive), Golden
Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant is requesting to subdivide the property into two
parcels in order to create an office building on one lot and radio
antenna towers on the other lot.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 18
Grimes referred to his memo dated May 9, 2001 and stated that originally this proposal
was going to be a rezoning of the front parcel to business and professional offices and
keep the radio and television zoning district for the towers. However, because the
location of the building did not meet the zoning requirements for the business and
professional office zoning district it was decided that applying for a PUD would be
appropriate. Grimes referred to the site map and discussed the MnDOT Highway 100
construction project and how it has affected this property. He discussed the new road
that will provide access on either side of Highway 100 for the frontage road system.
Grimes stated they are recommending approval based on the conditions listed in his
memo.
Pentel asked where the proposed KQRS Drive goes to. Grimes stated it goes under the
bridge and accesses the frontage road.
Pentel asked if park dedication would be an issue in this proposal. Grimes stated that
the City only requires park dedication when there is a new use created and there aren't
any new uses created with this proposal.
Groger stated it seems like this proposal is a benefit to the property owner, but
questioned the benefit to the City. Grimes stated that KQRS still uses the towers that
are on the site and for them to sell the building and maintain the towers they have to
divide the property. Grimes stated an advantage to the City would be that it gets to keep
an office building, with adequate parking. Groger stated that he doesn't feel that it's a
benefit to keep the office building where it is, because it's in a bad location. He stated
that the City has granted KQRS variances in the past and now they are selling it and
trying to get their money out of it and all the City is left with is an office building in a bad
location.
Grimes stated KQRS is asking the City how they can sell this as an office building and
maintain the use of the antennas and the only way they can do it is to apply for a PUD.
He stated that the Commission doesn't have to recommend approval but then the only
thing the property could be used for is radio and television.
Larry Martin, applicant, stated he didn't have a lot to add to Grimes narrative but stated
he brought a number of consultants with him to answer any questions. He stated KQRS
is now in the process of trying to mitigate damages arising from the taking and are
involved in a lawsuit with MnDOT. He stated the proposal is being made to market the
building and if the proposal were approved they would be able to sell the office building
and thereby reduce the damages in the lawsuit.
Pentel asked the applicant if they had a neighborhood meeting. Martin stated that they
had not. Grimes clarified that the City just recently switched the application from a
rezoning to a PUD.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 19
Eck asked if KQRS ended up moving because they needed more space or because of
the situation with MnDOT. Martin stated that the intent of KQRS was to expand onto the
property that was taken by MnDOT. He stated they had looked at several other sites in
Golden Valley but none of them worked out.
Rasmussen asked if the applicant wanted the antennas to stay where they are
regardless of whether or not the PUD is approved. Martin stated that was correct.
McAleese referred to some overhead wires that are coming out of the building and
asked what the purpose of the garage being converted into a mechanical unit is. Martin
stated they would be required to move the wires to the existing garage, before a
certificate of occupancy would be granted.
Pentel opened the informal public hearing.
Leo Anderson, 5625 Lindsay Street stated that what the applicant is proposing wouldn't
bother any of the neighbors. He stated that another office building in the area wouldn't
affect the traffic or bother anybody.
Renee Bergquist, 5620 Lindsay Street stated she was concerned about what kind of
business would go into the building and what kind of hours they would keep. She stated
she has concerns about the traffic on her street.
Carol Evans, 5525 Lindsay Street stated that she has no problems with the proposal
and stated she would like to see the back property kept as it is with the antennas
because of the wildlife that is there.
Arlene Dietz, 5640 Lindsay Street stated she is also concerned about the traffic and
what kind of business would be on the property.
Leo Anderson, 5625 Lindsay Street asked if Lindsay Street would tie into the new
service road. Dave Rally, MnDOT, stated Lindsay would be tied to Lilac Drive.
Pentel closed the informal public hearing.
Pentel stated the City couldn't control who leases or buys the office building. Grimes
stated that any business wanting to move there would have to fit in the Business &
Professional Offices Zoning District.
Eck stated the alternative to not approving the PUD would be to tear the building down
and questioned if that is the highest and best use of the property. Groger stated he is
going to vote against the proposal due to the closeness of the residential lot line and
highway. He stated this is nothing that the Commission would approve in any other
situation and that he would rather see it torn down and reutilized in some other way that
would be more in conformance with the City's Zoning Code. Grimes stated that if the
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 14, 2001
Page 20
City were to go on strict zoning they wouldn't be able to put a building where it is
located now.
Shaffer stated that if this proposal were to come to the Board of Zoning Appeals there
would be no way it would get approved, but the reality is that it's there and it could be
used as an office building.
MOVED by Shaffer, seconded by Rasmussen to approve the preliminary design plan of
KQRS, Inc. PUD No. 93. Commissioners McAleese and Groger voted against the
proposal.
-- Short Recess --
VII. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
No reports were given.
VIII. Other Business
No other business was discussed.
IX. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 pm.