11-26-01 PC Minutes
Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26, 2001
A Regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall,
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
November 26,2001. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Hoffman,
McAleese, Rasmussen and Shaffer. Also present were Director of Planning and
Development Mark Grimes, City Planner Dan Olson, and Recording Secretary Lisa
Wittman.
I. Approval of Minutes - November 12, 2001 Planning Commission Meeting
McAleese referred to page six of the minutes and requested that the conditions from
the staff memo be added to the motion for approval for BP Con nect. He referred again
to page six and asked if the Planning Commission could legally attach conditions to a
subdivision. Grimes stated he would be discussing that issue with the City Attorney.
MOVED by Eck, seconded by Hoffman and motion carried unanimously to approve the
November 12, 2001 minutes with the above noted correction.
II. Informal Public Hearing - Preliminary Design Plan - Carousel Porsche Audi -
Amendment to P .U.D. No. 95 -
Applicant: Carousel Automobiles
Address: 9191 and 9393 Wayzata Boulevard, Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The P.U.D. Amendment would allow for the construction of a new
parking lot and storm water retention pond on a triangular piece of
property at the new Carousel Porsche/Audi automobile dealership
that is currently under construction.
Olson showed the location of the site and referred to his memo dated November
21,2001. He stated that this request is to amend an existing PUD to allow for a new
parking lot with 67 parking spaces and a storm water retention pond. He stated that the
setback requirement of 35 feet is not being met in a small area along Miller Street and
the setback along the east side of the property next to the St. Louis Park nature area
has a proposed setback of 10 feet instead of the required 25 feet. He discussed the
tree preservation plan and stated that they are leaving the trees in the setback areas,
as well as replanting several new trees and taking some trees down. He stated that the
environmental coordinator, AI Lundstrom, has reviewed the plans and agrees that they
are meeting the tree preservation ordinance requirements.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26, 2001
Page 2
Olson stated that the area would only be for the storage of new cars and that no large
semi drop-offs of cars will occur in that area. He stated that there will be some lighting
in the area for security purposes but it will be much less intense than what is on the
main sales area of the site.
Pentel noted that the proposal indicated 18-foot long parking stalls and asked if that is
considered adequate. Olson stated the requirement is 9 feet x 20 feet. Grimes stated
that the City likes to see larger parking spaces when they are used for customer parking
but since the proposed use is for the storage of cars only it shouldn't be a problem.
Eck questioned the use of the word "display" on page two of Olson's memo. Olson
clarified that the parking spaces in question would only be used for storage.
Eck stated that when the Planning Commission reviewed the original proposal he
remembered the applicant stating that it was unfeasible to put a retention pond on the
triangular piece of property and questioned how they are able to do it now. Grimes
explained that there is going to be a pond on the north piece of property for that part of
the site and an additional pond on the triangular parcel just for south part of the site.
Groger stated that using the setback area for the display of cars on the north side of the
road was an issue the last time the Planning Commission reviewed the proposal and
noticed that on this proposal the applicant is showing display area within those
setbacks. Shaffer referred to the site plans and stated that the previous proposal had
an additional area along the curve that they wanted to use for display, but that this
proposal doesn't have that additional space.
Hoffman referred to the additional lighting being proposed and asked if the hours of
operation would be changing or if the applicant was going to start selling cars on that
property. Olson stated that there would be no sales of cars on the triangular piece of
property at all. Grimes stated that there has to be some sort of lighting on the site 24
hours a day for public safety purposes.
Rasmussen referred to the site plan and asked if the ten-foot setback area abuts a wall.
Olson stated that it does abut a wall. Rasmussen asked if the City currently has any
ordinances regarding outside storage. Olson stated that in the Industrial Zoning district
all outside storage is supposed to be screened. Grimes stated that the sale of cars is
permitted in the Industrial Zoning district and that this is a different situation compared
to other types of industrial uses where screening would be required.
Jon Baker, 100 South 5th Street, Minneapolis, architect for the project, referred to the
site plans and discussed the various variance requests. He reviewed the landscaping
plan and stated that they intend to add several four-inch caliper trees to the site, which
are 20 feet in height to start with and would grow to be 40 to 50 feet in height. He
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26,2001
Page 3
stated that the triangular piece of property is exclusively for the storage of cars and
discussed how this proposal is different from the original proposal. Pentel asked what
the height of the light poles would be on the triangular piece of property. Baker stated
that they haven't done a precise lighting plan yet, but that he guessed they would be
about 14 feet tall. Pentel stated that would be two feet higher than the wall and asked if
there would be lights would be on 24 hours a day. Baker stated there would be low-
level security lighting on 24 hours day but it would be minimal. Pentel asked the
applicant if it would be a hardship to have 12-foot high light poles instead of the
proposed14 feet high light poles. Baker stated that he wasn't sure if light poles come in
that size, but stated that they could try to stay in that range. Jon Hansen, 8989 Wayzata
Blvd., President of Carousel Automobiles, stated that he's made a pledge to the
neighbors that the lighting will be cut-off from their property and they won't be able to
see the glare of the lamps. Baker described the type of light fixture being proposed and
stated that he would do a detailed footcandle plan.
Pentel opened the public hearing.
Beth Dahl, 1311 Flag Avenue S., St. Louis Park, submitted a petition from the residents
in the neighborhood and stated that the main concern of the residents is that this
development will remove the barrier trees. She stated that her house is on a hill and
when the trees are gone, she would be looking right at the Carousel Audi parking lot.
She stated she did not oppose the proposal at first, but she didn't realize to what
degree she would be looking at these buildings. She stated that she never would have
bought her house had she been able to see TH169, TH394 and Carousel Audi and that
the trees that are there now are the only things that serve as a barrier. She asked the
applicant what kind of trees they are proposing to plant. Baker referred to the landscape
plan and discussed the various types of trees and landscaping that they would be
planting. Dahl stated that she is concerned about the lighting from the parking lot and
buildings shining into her living room window.
Denise Carpenter, 1321 Flag Avenue S., St. Louis Park, stated that she thinks there
should be a buffer maintained because of what she has seen with the fate of some of
the trees from the first part of the construction. She stated that there is nothing left there
of the vegetation except for a few scrawny trees along Miller Street. She stated she
doesn't have much faith that the applicant is going to save the trees that are still there
and that the loss of the trees are going to significantly impact a lot of people in the area.
She stated she would be able to see lights from the businesses, the Audi Dealership
and TH394 and that's not a pleasant view. She stated she was concerned about the
impact on traffic on Miller Street and having an entrance on that street could be a
detriment. She stated that if the applicant is intending to use the triangular piece of
property for secured parking that it seems to her that planting a heavy series of trees
and vegetation along the street would be against their best interest and negate what
they are doing.
Pentel closed the public hearing.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26, 2001
Page 4
Pentel stated that she would not support any development on this piece of property that
encroached on the setbacks. She stated that she felt the 10-foot setback proposed on
the east side should be 25 feet according to City regulations. She stated she
appreciates the increased vegetation, but the pond itself and the excayation of the pond
is going to remove a lot of the trees that act as a buffer to the neighborhood. She stated
that this proposal is different from the previous one the Planning Commission saw but it
is still not keeping setbacks that the City Code requires.
Groger asked if the pond is a legal requirement and if the size of the property is large
enough that is requires a pond. Grimes stated whenever more than half an acre is
being disturbed in the Bassett Creek Water Management Area applicants have to meet
water quality standards. He stated that the applicant would have to build the pond to the
requirements of the Watershed District because more than half an acre is being
disturbed in this case.
Groger asked if there would be any signage on this particular piece of property.
Hansen stated that the only signs that would be on the triangular piece of property are
the stickers on the cars, which list the car's options.
Hansen commented about the neighbors concerns about them cutting down all the
trees on the north part of the site. He stated that in the original plans that were
approved there weren't any undisturbed areas and the whole site had to be disturbed
for re-grading and soil correction. He stated that he talked to the manager of the park
reserve to the east and that he is fine with the 10-foot setback being proposed. He
referred to several other properties along the wall that are closer than 10 feet to the
wall. He stated that the 25-foot setback is assuming there is no wall there and he hoped
the Commission would take that into consideration and that having a 25-foot setback
along the wall wouldn't really help the neighbors. He clarified that the pond does meet
the requirements of the City and the Watershed District.
Rasmussen asked if ponding was required for water quality or if they could put in a
storm sewer for drainage. Pentel stated that the ponds are used not just for drainage
but also for the settling of solids.
Rasmussen asked the applicants if there was any way they could make the neighbors
happier with the screening and still use this piece of property. Baker stated that working
with the shape of this piece of property and the setback requirements has been a
challenge. He stated that they have met with the neighbors and it was his
understanding that their concerns had been satisfied in regards to the setback changes,
landscaping and lighting design. He stated that this is a minimal layout from what they
had originally anticipated and he can't think of any way to make it better. He stated that
in contrast, with the zoning that this property exists under, a building, or something
more obtrusive to their visual site lines, could be built there. Rasmussen asked if the
large trees would have to go in any of the scenarios they looked at. Baker stated that
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26, 2001
Page 5
most of the larger trees are spread throughout the property and the whole site has to be
re-graded.
Pentel stated that she is impressed with the quality of the construction on the site so
far.
Eck stated that this is an unfortunate situation where it is essentially impossible to do
anything with this piece of property that is not going to impact the neighbors in some
way and without totally denying the owner the use of the land, the neighbors can't be
totally insulated from some impact of this development. He stated that the architect has
done a good job to try to minimize the impact of the development on the neighborhood
to the south. He stated that having a 10-foot setback on the east side of the property
against the retaining wall does not bother him. He doesn't see that there is any negative
impact in reducing that setback, in favor of increasing the setback on the south and
supports the proposal as is.
Shaffer agreed with Eck and stated that if the applicant were to put the parking lot fully
within all the setback lines they could then put the pond within the 50-foot setback area,
which would take out all the trees and meet all of the guidelines, but not help the
neighbors at all. He stated that this proposal pushes the setback along the wall, but he
doesn't have a problem with that. He stated the City would be allowing a few small
variances, but they are not severe and it is the best compromise in his opinion.
MOVED by McAleese, seconded by Hoffman and motion carried to approve
Amendment No.1 to P.U.D. No. 95 Carousel Porsche Audi which would allow for the
construction of a new parking lot and storm water retention pond on a triangular piece
of property at the new Carousel Porsche/Audi automobile dealership that is currently
under construction. The approval is subject to the following conditions:
1. All signs for the Carousel Porsche Audi development shall meet the
requirements for automobile dealerships in the Industrial zoning district.
2. The recommendation of City Engineer, Jeff Oliver found in his memo to Mark
Grimes dated November 21, 2001 shall become part of this approval.
3. The height of the light poles should be limited to 12 feet in height.
4. The landscape plans should be reviewed to help alleviate the impact to the
neighbors to the south.
5. The landscape plans should include some vegetation along the east wall.
Chair Pentel voted against the proposal.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
November 26,2001
Page 6
-- Short Recess --
III. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
Shaffer discussed the next Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting.
IV. Other Business
Grimes stated that there would be a Planning Commission Meeting on December 17,
2001 and cancelled the meeting scheduled for December 10, 2001.
V. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 8:10 pm.