06-24-02 PC Minutes
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Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
June 24, 2002
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday
June 24, 2002. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Hoffman, McAleese
and Rasmussen. Also present were Director of Planning and Development, Mark
Grimes, City Planner, Dan Olson and Recording Secretary Lisa Wittman.
Commissioner Shaffer was absent
I. Approval of Minutes - June 10, 2002 Planning Commission Meeting
e MOVED by Eck, seconded by Groger and motion carried unanimously to approve the
June 10,2002 minutes as submitted.
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II. Informal Public Hearing - Planned Unit Development Amendment (PUD-65 A)
Applicant: TCF National Bank
Address:
8224 Olson Memorial Highway, Golden Valley, MN
The applicant would like to amend the existing PUD to allow for a
bank with a drive-through facility.
Purpose:
Grimes explained that the applicant is TCF National Bank but that it is part of the
Golden Valley Shopping Center PUD. He referred to the site plan for TCF and
explained how it relates to the rest of the shopping center. He stated that in 1994 it was
determined that part of the parking lot and driveway encroached on MnDot right-of-way
for TH55. This was resolved by MnDot turning property over to the Trach shopping
center.
Grimes stated that the TCF building would be approximately 4,000 square feet in area,
access would be off of Golden Valley Drive and there would be no new driveway cuts.
He stated that a chief concern was traffic. The City hired Glen Van Wormer, a traffic
engineer from SEH to study the traffic issues, the study showed that the traffic
generated from the TCF site would be similar to other types of commercial uses.
Grimes reviewed the parking regulations and stated that they would have 27 parking
spaces, 10 spaces would be for employee parking and 17 spaces would be for
customer parking which would be more than adequate.
Grimes reviewed the setback requirements and showed the Commissioners a copy of
the landscape plan. He stated that the plans show some landscaping on right-of-way
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
June 24, 2002
Page 2
property and that the City Engineer and City Council would have to approve that.
Groger pointed out that the southern strip of green space shown on the plans is
incorrect and that that is really a driveway.
Grimes stated that another issue is that most of the stores in the shopping center are
connected to wells and the City may make them go on City water. He stated that he
also added as a condition of approval that dumpster enclosures must be constructed for
all dumpsters on the Golden Valley Shopping Center property by October 1, 2002.
Grimes referred to the original PUD Permit issued in 1995 and read that the amount of
signage existing on the site at the date of PUD approval shall be the amount permitted
on the site. He stated that TCF would like to add another Pylon sign and a monument
sign to the site. He stated that the Building Official, Gary Johnson has recommended
limiting TCF's signage to 164 square feet, which is the amount permitted for a building
in a commercial zoning district. He showed the Commission a sketch of the monument
sign and stated that the pylon sign is still an issue that has to be dealt with.
Pentel asked if 164 square feet of signage is for the whole shopping center. Grimes
stated no it is just for the TCF area of the site.
Rasmussen asked what the monument sign would say. Grimes stated it would say
TCF and would also serve as a directional sign.
Grimes discussed the landscaping on the site and stated that the City would like the
shopping center corner to match the other three corners of the Winnetka Avenue and
Golden Valley Road intersection. He stated that Staff would like to open up discussions
about landscaping that corner with David Trach, the owner of the property and
suggested that landscaping that corner be made a condition of approval as part of this
amendment.
Pentel asked about pedestrian traffic and how people would get from Golden Valley
Road to the shopping center. Grimes stated that the City did make a connection from
Wisconsin.
Pentel asked what the City could do to make the barriers in that area more aesthetically
pleasing. Grimes stated that is outside of this PUD and that he would have to talk to
the Director of Public Works to determine if changes could be made.
Pentel stated she noticed that the dumpsters are very available for use by the general
public and asked if there were any requirements about locking dumpsters for tenants
use only. She also asked how high the newly required trash enclosures would be and
what they would look like. Grimes stated he would leave those decisions to the
Inspections Department because they have requirements regarding dumpsters and
enclosures. He stated that he too has noticed the dumpsters at the shopping center
are starting to look unsightly. Pentel asked if the City has any say about what time of
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
June 24, 2002
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day that garbage could be picked up. Grimes stated they would have to follow City
noise ordinances.
Hoffman asked why they are dealing with the dumpsters when they don't have anything
to do with the TCF proposal. Grimes explained that when a PUD is amended it opens
up all of the issues for scrutiny.
Eck stated that Grimes' comments have been that the corner landscaping issue would
be opened up for discussion, but that might not happen and the City Engineer's memo
makes it sound like it will happen. Grimes stated that there has been some confusion
over this issue and that the City has stated in the past the it does want the corner
landscaping issue to be dealt with in due time.
Pentel stated that the Area B task force came up with some creative ideas for the
shopping center corner and asked if anything has come of that. Grimes stated no,
nothing has been decided.
Mike Kraft, Shea Architects, Architect for the project, stated that they want to
dramatically clean up the west end of the property and make it look comparable to the
rest of the Area B sites. He stated that the lighting store would also be cleaned up as a
part of this proposal and that they are adding curb and gutter to the rest of the site. He
showed pictures of what the proposed building would look like and discussed the
proposed drive up lanes and stated they would like to add picnic tables to the green
space to the west. He stated they are intending to enclose their dumpster with the
same brick used on the building and that they have agreed to stay within the 164
square foot signage requirements.
Pentel asked where the next closest TCF branch is located and if this proposed branch
will be full service with vaults. Kraft stated the there was a branch in Robbinsdale.
They would be full service but they would not have any vaults.
Hoffman asked if TCF's dumpster would be locked. Kraft stated no.
Eck asked how many cars would stack in the drive up lanes at busy times. Kraft
explained that they plan stacking for six cars but the typical amount is more like two or
three and that an extremely busy day could have 1,800 cars per day, but that it is not
likely to have that many. ..
Pentel asked if TCF would be leasing the property. Kraft stated yes. Pentel asked if
this proposal would have to go to the Building Board of Review. Grimes stated he
wasn't sure and that it was up to the Inspections Department to decide.
Joe Finley, Leonard, Street & Dienard, attorney representing the Trachs, stated that
almost all of the businesses have been connected to City water already. He addressed
the dumpster issues and stated that they are adding shielded dumpsters but that it
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
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would be almost impossible to add swinging doors because of the way the building is
set up. He referred to Grimes' comment about a PUD amendment opening up the
whole PUD for scrutiny and stated that he did not think that was true. He discussed
how having to landscape that corner of Winnetka and Golden Valley Road would
require them giving up a lot of their land, would change the flow of the shopping center
and they would have to tear down a building. He stated he does not want the Planning
Commission to add landscaping the corner as a condition of approval for TCF and
asked to not require the Trachs to give up their land without going through a
condemnation process. He discussed the Dolan case and laws about taking property
and stated that whatever is happening with the TCF bank has nothing to do with the
shopping center and that the lease with TCF may by killed if landscaping the corner is
made a condition of approval.
Pentel asked if the TCF building and parking lot would meet zoning requirements
without a PUD. Grimes stated they are proposing zero setbacks on two sides so it
would not meet zoning requirements.
Finley stated that the building was legal when it was originally built and should not be
held to current zoning requirements just because the laws have changed. Pentel stated
that this area is a centerpiece of Golden Valley and the City has worked hard to bring it
into the 21 st Century. Grimes stated that the City has given the shopping center a lot of
green space at one end of the site and that is another reason the City wants to talk with
the Trachs about the landscaping issues. Finley stated that the land did not have to be
given to the City because a PUD Permit is a discretionary permit.
Rasmussen asked if the City has discussed condemning the property on the northeast
corner of Golden Valley Road and Winnetka. Grimes stated that it was discussed in
1995 but that the City did not want to acquire it then. Rasmussen questioned if the City
has a right to take his business away over a landscaping issue. She stated she was
pleased that TCF is proposing to update the one end of the site and she is hopeful that
the whole building could change.
Finley stated that giving up the northeast corner of Golden Valley Road and Winnetka
would also cut access to the site, cause safety issues, change the flow and cause real
profit and property loss.
Rasmussen asked how a shopping center is updated. Finley stated that it is hard to tell
tenants to get out when they have a lease.
Eck asked if the trash enclosures would only have three sides and if that meant the
open side would face Golden Valley Road. Finley stated they would have three sides
but that the openings would face the building.
. Pentel opened the public hearing.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
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Alex Phoenix, 8116 Golden Valley Road, stated that she wants to work with businesses
in the area and doesn't want it to be "us" against "them". She stated that she has not
had any issues with the dumpsters but rather the traffic and noise. She stated that she
has heard trash compacting at 4:30 AM and has called the police but that it is not
happening anymore. She stated she wasn't keen on the potential 1,800 cars per hour
but she is sympathetic with TCF. She expressed concern about the T -street where all
of the traffic is and stated that it is not a pedestrian friendly area. She also expressed
concerned about the safety of people wanting to walk to the pedestrian bridge. She
asked the Planning Commission if TCF Bank is already planning to go into this location
of if the Planning Commission is deciding if that is viable. She asked what is actually
being decided at this meeting.
Pentel clarified that the 1,800 cars were potential trips per day, not per hour.
Jean Caleneni, 8104 Golden Valley Road, stated that she agreed with Alex Phoenix's
comments and stated that a lot of residents are getting together to talk about
development in the area. She stated she is mostly concerned about the few
opportunities for egress. She stated there would be more and more traffic going by
their townhouses and the T -intersection is almost nightmarish. She stated that there is
only one route that is walkable and that there needs to be another pedestrian option.
Chris Barnes, 8106 Golden Valley Road, stated he liked the development in the area
and wants it to be a pedestrian friendly area. He stated he is not sure where the City is
at in the approval process and asked about the proposed circulation around the T-
intersection. He stated he wasn't sure if there had already been discussions regarding
this proposal and that he would like to be involved in future discussions.
Phoenix stated that she could not support a pylon sign for TCF because people would
be looking right at it from their windows.
Brittny McCarthy Barnes, 8106 Golden Valley Road, stated she is curious about where
the City is in the process of approving this PUD amendment. She asked if the City
Council would be making a decision next week or if it would just be a discussion. She
asked if TCF is for sure going to be the tenant or if there is another possible tenant.
Pentel explained the process that PUD amendments go through and the Planning
Commission's role. She stated that the property is zoned Commercial and that the
property owners in that zoning district have certain rights.
Groger clarified that this meeting is the first time the Planning Commission had
discussed this proposal and that they encourage proponents to have neighborhood
meetings. Pentel added that she would encourage residents to talk to the City Council.
Grimes suggested they talk to the Director of Public Works and read the pedestrian
circulation report. He stated that the City has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
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so far on improvements and that all of the improvements have been a part of the
pedestrian traffic solution.
McCarthy Barnes asked if it would be too late to talk the City Council since this proposal
would be on their next agenda. Pentel stated that she thinks it is still a good idea to
think of creative ways to move pedestrian traffic. She stated that the Council would be
acting on this proposal soon, but that there will be continued development in that area.
Phoenix asked if there were any reason why the drive up lanes were being proposed on
the west side of the site rather than the east because the traffic would flow in a more
efficient manner if they were on the east side of the site. Pentel stated that there are
already parking spaces on the east. Kraft explained that putting the drive up lanes on
the west side allows enough room for the stacking of cars and that if the lanes were on
the east side on the building they would be on the passenger side of the vehicles.
Pentel closed the public hearing.
Pentel stated she thinks the sidewalk issues are important. Grimes reminded the
Commission that there is a sidewalk that goes in front of the stores.
Groger discussed the green space that would be taken on the site for the drive up lanes
and the new signage requests.
Eck referred to discussion item number six on Grimes' staff report which refers to the
acquisition of property by the City at the southwest corner of Golden Valley Road and
Winnetka and stated that he doesn't think that any of the Planning Commissioners are
legally qualified to comment on the legalities of that issue. Pentel stated that number
six from Grimes' memo was taken from condition number three on the City Engineer's
memo which states the developer must submit a plan and schedule for the installation
of streetscaping in the southwest quadrant of Winnetka Avenue and Golden Valley
Road and that it must be of similar materials and quality as the city streetscaping in the
downtown area. Eck stated that he is not comfortable with the way number six on
Grimes' memo is presently worded.
Groger stated he is not in favor of this proposal. He stated that it is currently grossly in
violation of the City Code and that the only green space is at the west end of the site.
He stated that just because the existing parking lot has no green space doesn't mean
they should extend the pavement to the west end. He stated that the City has to rely on
the traffic engineer but that the traffic will increase and that this proposal is too intense
of a use and will further aggravate the existing problems. He stated that the Highway
55 right-of-way area is not supposed to be counted as setback area and that allowing
the use of right-of-way for green space is setting a bad precedent. He stated he is
against this proposal with or without the streetscaping on the southwest corner.
McAleese stated that Grimes' recommendation and the City Engineer's
recommendation are saying pretty much the same thing and he is comfortable with the
way it is worded. He stated the City needs to do something about the southwest corner
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issue but that it should be left to the attorneys to work it out. He stated that as far as
the legalities about being in violation of the PUD ordinance he would rely on the City
Attorney's opinion but the proposal is against the PUD concept. He stated he agreed
with Commissioner Groger about saving the little bit of green space that is left but that
any use of the site would generate about the same amount of traffic so that part of the
proposal is not a concern to him.
Pentel stated that she thinks a yoga business is not the highest and best use for this
site. She stated that if the green space was passive green space or used for drainage
she wouldn't support this proposal but if the City has a negotiating tool to help them in
getting some improvements done at the shopping center she would support it. She
stated that she only wants two pylon signs on this property. She stated that the task
force for this area wanted to keep the small businesses in Golden Valley and if by
granting this proposal the City can open up discussions for improving the whole area,
she is for it.
Hoffman stated he agreed with Pentel and that the traffic engineers at SEH have done
a good job in the past so he i~ not concerned about the increase in traffic caused by
this proposal.
Eck stated that he asked Grimes to look at the access to the site and both he and the
City Engineer say the accesses are staying the same and that this proposal won't have
a big impact on the site. He stated he would be supporting this proposal with item
number six in Grimes' memo reworded.
Rasmussen stated she has a problem with the City making the property owners give up
some of their land and make tenants leave. She stated she is concerned aboutthe
signage on the site but not so concerned about the traffic because with any commercial
use at that site the traffic would be about the same. She stated she would support this
proposal.
Pentel stated she would not have a problem with TCF having a small monument sign
placed at their discretion but suggested that the wording of condition number five in
Grimes' memo be changed, but keeping the total signage for the building limited to 164
square feet. Grimes explained that the 164 square feet recommendation is from the
Building Code and applies to any commercial building. He stated that his memo would
be reworded before it went to the City Council and asked the Commissioners about
continuing negotiations involving future dedication of property at the corner Winnetka
and Golden Vally Drive. Rasmussen suggested saying that the Planning Commission
thinks that developing the corner is important but how the City and the property owners
negotiate it would be up to the attorneys involved.
MOVED by Eck, seconded by Hoffman and motion carried to approve the applicant's
request to amend the existing PUD to allow for a bank with a drive-through facility.
Commissioners Groger and McAleese voted not to approve the proposal.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
June 24, 2002
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III. Informal Public Hearing - Minor Subdivision (SU 06-02)
Applicant: George Wessin
Address: Lot 10, Block 1 Heathbrooke located at 1811 Noble Drive; and Tract G,
Registered Land Survey No. 1104 and part of lot 3, Auditor's Subdivision
No.330, located at 1807 Noble Drive in Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant is requesting a subdivision of the two parcels of land
in order to redraw the property line between these parcels. The
applicant would like to build a new home at 1811 Noble Drive.
Olson referred to a site plan and showed the location of the properties involved and
showed the existing and proposed new property lines. He stated that the applicant is
requesting that the property lines be revised in order to build a house at 1811 Noble
Drive, which is currently vacant. He stated that the detached garage at 1807 is not
completely behind the house and that is the only thing that doesn't meet Zoning Code
requirements. He stated because of the garage issue the proposal would need a
variance from the subdivision code.
Olson discussed the park dedication fees related to this subdivision and stated that the
City requires park dedication fees when applicants are creating a new lot to be for sale.
Eck stated that the premise for this proposed subdivision seemed flawed because there
is nothing stopping the applicant from building a home on the vacant lot as it is now.
He stated that Olson's memo says the applicant is requesting this subdivision "so that a
new home could be built" is incorrect. Olson agreed that he should have worded his
memo differently.
Wayne VanderVort, 4525 Belford Drive, Edina, representing the applicant stated that a
home could be built at 1811 with the property lines the way they are now, but Mr.
Wessin wants there to be a buffer between the two lots.
Pentel asked when the house at 1807 was built. Olson stated his research showed that
the house was built in 1932. Pentel stated that the garage requirements might have
been different then.
Pentel opened the public hearing.
Erik Meyer, 1815 Noble Drive asked if it was the applicant's intent to build on the lot or
to sell it. VanderVort stated it that the lot would probably be sold.
MOVED by McAleese, seconded by Rasmussen and motion carried unanimously to
approve the request for a minor subdivision to redraw the property line between 1 e07
and 1811 Noble Drive.
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-- Short Recess --
IV. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
No other meetings were discussed.
V. Other Business
No other business was discussed
VI. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 PM.