03-24-03 PC Minutes
Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
March 24, 2003. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Keysser, McAleese,
Rasmussen .and Shaffer. Also present were City Planner, Dan Olson and Recording
Secretary, Lisa Wittman. Director of Planning and Development, Mark Grimes was absent
I. Approval of Minutes - March 10, 2003 Planning Commission Meeting
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Groger referred to Section I on Page 1 and stated that the date was written wrong. It
should have read "February 24,2003" not "2002". Groger also stated that the year 2002
was used instead of 2003 in the headers on the rest of the pages of the minutes as
well.
Pentel referred to Page 3, Paragraph 1 and stated that she remembered directing staff
to update all demographic charts in the technical background portion in the Housing
Section of the Comprehensive Plan and would like wording added to the minutes
reflecting that request.
Pentel referred to Page 3, Paragraph 4 and stated that the tour the Commission talked
about taking once they have identified areas they would like to see possibly used for
housing was tentatively set for late April.
e MOVED by Keysser, seconded by Shaffer and motion carried unanimously to approve
the minutes from March 10, 2003 with the above changes.
II. Informal Public Hearing - Conditional Use Permit (CU-100)
Applicant: Mark Saliterman
Address: 740-750 Florida Avenue South, Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant would like to use the building for an indoor go-cart
facility.
Olson pointed out the site on a location map. He showed an interior site plan and stated
that the applicants are proposing to have ten go-carts inside the building and that there
would be no exterior changes to the building other than striping the parking lot.
Olson stated that the Zoning Code doesn't have specific parking requirements for
recreational uses in the Industrial zoning district but that staff believes the 100 parking
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 2
spaces the applicant has proposed is adequate. He stated that these are gas powered
go-carts and that they would need to be re-fueled outside. The applicant has agreed to
those fueling conditions and to all of the conditions of approval outlined in his memo
dated March 19, 2003.
Eck questioned the noise, air quality and ventilation system if the go-carts are going to
be run inside the building. Olson stated that the go-carts would not be able to be heard
outside of the building and that the Inspections Department has reviewed the proposal
and doesn't have any issues with this proposed use. He added that he is not sure what
is required regarding the ventilation system. Keysser stated that he had the same
concerns as Commissioner Eck.
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Rasmussen asked where on the site the go-carts would be refueled. Olson said that the
Deputy Fire Marshal is still investigating other cities with similar facilities to see what
they require.
Shaffer mentioned that he saw cars parked on Florida Avenue in front of The 3rd Lair
Skate Park and said that he thought the whole street was designated no parking.
Groger said he had the same concern and stated that all of Florida Avenue probably
should be designated no parking. Olson stated that it is his understanding that all of
Florida Avenue is designated no parking and that he would verify that with the Street
Department.
Keysser asked what staff's recommendation is. Olson stated that staff is recommending
approval.
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David Kaplan, applicant, 4301 Highway 7, Suite 100, St. Louis Park, stated that he
didn't think parking would be an issue. He stated that they may put in an exchange
system depending on what the City requires.
Pentel asked if the go-carts have two-cycle engines. Kaplan stated that he thought so.
Pentel explained that two-cycle engines are the filthiest type of engines.
Kaplan stated that the most fuel they would need on site would be 20 gallons. Pentel
asked if the fuel would be stored in a shed, underground or above ground. Kaplan
stated that they would probably use something like gas stations use to store propane in.
Pentel asked about the minimum age requirements. Kaplan stated that at their facility in
Wisconsin Dells the minimum age they allowed was between 14 and 16. Keysser
stated that he has a 12 year old son that has driven go-carts in Wisconsin Dells. Kaplan
stated that these go-carts are different; they are faster and safer.
Pentel asked if waivers would be required for people who were underage. Kaplan
stated that anyone under 18 would be required to sign a waiver. Keysser asked if
helmets would be required. Kaplan stated yes.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 3
Pentel stated that she is concerned about oil and gas polluting the inside of the building
and the outside when the interior is cleaned. She stated that she sees this as an
intense auto use and that there are a lot of details that are unanswered and many
uncertain aspects to this proposal.
Eck asked the applicant if he knows what the decibel noise level would be and if
hearing protection would be required. Kaplan stated that he didn't know what the
decibel level would be, but that the noise would be contained in the building and that
they could sell ear plugs. Rasmussen asked how he knew the noise would stay
contained in the building. Kaplan stated that he couldn't guarantee it, but they believe it
will and that if the noise level is uncomfortable for customers, they won't want to come
back.
e Groger asked if the building is air conditioned. Kaplan stated no. Groger suggested
requiring the doors be kept closed to keep the noise inside as a condition of approval.
Pentel stated that she would also like a condition regarding the outdoor storage of
gasoline and oil.
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Rasmussen stated that she thinks this is a good idea, but there are so many
unanswered questions. She said that she would think the applicant would have looked
at the ventilation issues before now. Kaplan said that he is willing to put in whatever
ventilation system the City requires. He stated that he realizes that they need to still put
things into the space and said he his willing to put the money into it. Olson stated that
the applicant has submitted a code analysis and that the Inspections Department has
reviewed it and has no issues with the proposed use of the building.
Pentel referred to the 3rd Lair and said that skateboarding is pushing oneself on ones
own volition much like baseball. She questioned categorizing go-carts as recreational
and stated that this is a broad use of the definition of a recreational facility.
Keysser stated that it is not just Building Code issues he is concerned about it is also
the health code and PCA pollution codes. He said that there are a lot of unknowns in
this proposal. Kaplan stated that the use they are proposing would be much cleaner
compared to the heavy industrial use that previously took place in this building. Pentel
said she wasn't sure about that and cautioned him about making that his final appeal.
Shaffer stated that he thinks the Planning Commission is overstepping its bounds. He
said that they deal with the outside and that there are other codes governed by other
agencies that the applicant is going to have to conform to regarding the issues inside of
the building and that the Planning Commission shouldn't be looking at the use inside of
buildings in this detail.
McAleese stated that he agrees with Shaffer for the most part, but the issues the
Commissioners have been discussing are legitimate things to talk about. Shaffer
explained that the applicant is not going to be able to talk about his HV AC system until
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March 24, 2003
Page 4
he knows it is going to be done. Rasmussen asked if there are general standards for
the kind of air that can be discharged. Pentel said she is not sure the PCA has a
standard for emissions for go-cart facilities that are located inside. Shaffer stated that
OSHA would probably regulate the standards and that the Planning Commissioners are
not experts in these fields. He said that he does agree that the use inside should be
examined but how things technically are done should not be. Pentel said that she
disagreed with Shaffer about the Planning Commission overstepping its boundaries by
looking at inside uses in detail and that the Commission has talked in detail about
inside uses in the past.
Rasmussen stated that she does think this proposed use should be considered a
recreational use.
e Groger asked the applicant if he anticipated allowing smoking inside the building.
Kaplan stated that there would probably be no smoking allowed.
Pentel opened the public hearing. Seeing and hearing no one, she closed the public
hearing.
Keysser asked about the cities that have similar facilities and their experience with
meeting emission standards and if there are PCA and Health Department rules. Olson
stated that the Inspections Department is going to tour some cities with this type of
facility but haven't as of yet.
Eck stated that he has no objections to this facility being at this location and that the
parking is adequate but that he is not comfortable about not knowing anything about the
internal situation. He stated that he would have difficulty supporting this proposal when
e he doesn't know whether this proposal is doable in this space.
Rasmussen asked if the Commission has to know all of the details in order to pass it on
to the City Council. Pentel said that each Commissioner can individually give their
decision.
Pentel stated that she wouldn't be supporting the proposal. She questioned whether the
proposed use is appropriate in this zoning district. She said she is concerned about
gasoline storage, servicing the go-carts, where the vehicles are stored, where smoking
is allowed and oil storage.
Keysser stated that he agrees with Eck and Pentel and that by ventilating the space the
internal issues would be become external issues.
Groger stated that he agreed with Shaffer that the Commission is going beyond where it
should. He referred to condition number twelve in Olson's memo which states that all
other applicable local, state, and federal requirements shall be met and said that they
have to rely on staff and the various laws and government agencies. He stated that he
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March 24, 2003
Page 5
would like to add some additional conditions but that he thinks it is an appropriate use
and he is in favor of the proposal.
Shaffer agreed that there should be some additional conditions added but that it is an
appropriate use of the space and a complimentary use to the 3fd Lair next door. In
regard to the mechanical systems the Inspections Department and other local, state
and federal agencies to decide the requirements. He said he is fine with how the track
is laid out, but that the number of go-carts concerns him.
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McAleese stated that on the technical issue of indoor pollution he feels that issue is
before the Planning Commission. He stated that he is not sure if this is recreation and
that it is not similar to what you would see in a city park. He said he is worried about
stretching the word recreation. It could be argued that a gun range is recreational. He
said the City needs to define the word recreation and revise the Zoning Code to allow
this use rather than to allow it by conditional use permit. He said he is going to vote
against this proposal, not because he is that against it, but because it is an
inappropriate use under the Zoning Code. He said he is also concerned about the
indoor air quality. He stated that condition number twelve in Olson's memo is useful but
when a problem is known there should be a specific condition attached.
Pentel reviewed the following conditions of approval that the Planning Commission
would like to see added:
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All doors shall remain closed.
No smoking would be allowed inside the building
No exterior noise shall be allowed
Exterior Fumes to be contained as to not disrupt surrounding areas
Outside storage to be screened with materials compatible with the building
Scheduling of the facility for teenage use shall take place after school hours
Rasmussen said she wasn't sure if the City could tell them that they can't allow smoking
in their own business.
Olson asked the Commission if they would be interested in allowing the applicant to
table this request. Pentel asked the applicant if he would like to table his request, he
stated that he would not like to table it but would like it to move on to the City Council.
Olson recommended to the applicant that he talk with the Inspections Department
regarding the issues brought up by the Planning Commission.
Pentel recommended that the Council think about recreational uses in terms of the
Code and how it is interpreted and what the definition of recreational use should be.
Keysser suggested that it might also be helpful if staff put together some information
from other similar facilities.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
March 24, 2003
Page 6
MOVED by Shaffer, and seconded by Groger to approve the request by the applicant to
use the building located at 740 and 750 Florida Avenue South for an indoor go-cart
facility with the following conditions:
1 . No parking shall be allowed within the landscape areas.
2. Any signage for the building must meet the signage requirements of the City's
Sign Code enforced by the Inspections Department.
3. The recommendations of Deputy Fire Marshall, Ed Anderson, as found in his
memo dated November 20,2002 become a part of this approval.
4. The outside dumpster must be screened from view with materials compatible
with the building.
e 5. All deliveries shall take place between 8 am and Noon.
6. Whenever possible, private parties shall be scheduled in evenings and on
weekends.
7. No outside music, loud speakers, or public address systems will be allowed.
8. The pro shop shall remain a secondary use to the recreational uses of the
facility and shall occupy no more than 600 square feet of the building.
9. The parking lots shall be striped so as to provide for 100 parking spaces.
10. No fuel shall be stored in the building, and all refueling of go-karts shall take
place outside the building.
11. Operating hours shall be as follows: Monday through Thursday, 8 am to 11 pm;
Friday and Saturday, 8 am to Midnight; Sundays, Noon to 11 pm.
e 12. All other applicable local, state, and federal requirements shall be met.
13. Failure to comply with one or more of the above conditions shall be grounds for
revocation of the conditional use permit.
14. All doors shall remain closed during business hours.
15. No exterior noise shall be allowed.
16. Exterior fumes shall be contained as to not disrupt surrounding areas.
17. All outside storage must be screened from view with materials compatible with
the building.
18. The scheduling of the facility for teenage use shall take place after school
hours.
The motion was denied 4 to 3. Commissioners Eck, Keysser, McAleese and Pentel
voted against the proposal.
-- Short Recess --
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March 24, 2003
Page 7
III. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
Pentel reported on a meeting she attended with the Mayor and other commission chairs
regarding the possibility of combining the Building Board of Review and The Board of
Zoning Appeals and The Environmental Commission with the Planning Commission.
IV. Other Business
Olson announced that due to budget constraints, his position with the City has been
eliminated. This is his last Planning Commission meeting.
V.
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 8:27 pm.