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03-24-03 PC Minutes Regular Meeting of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday, March 24, 2003. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm. Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Keysser, McAleese, Rasmussen .and Shaffer. Also present were City Planner, Dan Olson and Recording Secretary, Lisa Wittman. Director of Planning and Development, Mark Grimes was absent I. Approval of Minutes - March 10, 2003 Planning Commission Meeting e Groger referred to Section I on Page 1 and stated that the date was written wrong. It should have read "February 24,2003" not "2002". Groger also stated that the year 2002 was used instead of 2003 in the headers on the rest of the pages of the minutes as well. Pentel referred to Page 3, Paragraph 1 and stated that she remembered directing staff to update all demographic charts in the technical background portion in the Housing Section of the Comprehensive Plan and would like wording added to the minutes reflecting that request. Pentel referred to Page 3, Paragraph 4 and stated that the tour the Commission talked about taking once they have identified areas they would like to see possibly used for housing was tentatively set for late April. e MOVED by Keysser, seconded by Shaffer and motion carried unanimously to approve the minutes from March 10, 2003 with the above changes. II. Informal Public Hearing - Conditional Use Permit (CU-100) Applicant: Mark Saliterman Address: 740-750 Florida Avenue South, Golden Valley, MN Purpose: The applicant would like to use the building for an indoor go-cart facility. Olson pointed out the site on a location map. He showed an interior site plan and stated that the applicants are proposing to have ten go-carts inside the building and that there would be no exterior changes to the building other than striping the parking lot. Olson stated that the Zoning Code doesn't have specific parking requirements for recreational uses in the Industrial zoning district but that staff believes the 100 parking Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 2 spaces the applicant has proposed is adequate. He stated that these are gas powered go-carts and that they would need to be re-fueled outside. The applicant has agreed to those fueling conditions and to all of the conditions of approval outlined in his memo dated March 19, 2003. Eck questioned the noise, air quality and ventilation system if the go-carts are going to be run inside the building. Olson stated that the go-carts would not be able to be heard outside of the building and that the Inspections Department has reviewed the proposal and doesn't have any issues with this proposed use. He added that he is not sure what is required regarding the ventilation system. Keysser stated that he had the same concerns as Commissioner Eck. - Rasmussen asked where on the site the go-carts would be refueled. Olson said that the Deputy Fire Marshal is still investigating other cities with similar facilities to see what they require. Shaffer mentioned that he saw cars parked on Florida Avenue in front of The 3rd Lair Skate Park and said that he thought the whole street was designated no parking. Groger said he had the same concern and stated that all of Florida Avenue probably should be designated no parking. Olson stated that it is his understanding that all of Florida Avenue is designated no parking and that he would verify that with the Street Department. Keysser asked what staff's recommendation is. Olson stated that staff is recommending approval. - David Kaplan, applicant, 4301 Highway 7, Suite 100, St. Louis Park, stated that he didn't think parking would be an issue. He stated that they may put in an exchange system depending on what the City requires. Pentel asked if the go-carts have two-cycle engines. Kaplan stated that he thought so. Pentel explained that two-cycle engines are the filthiest type of engines. Kaplan stated that the most fuel they would need on site would be 20 gallons. Pentel asked if the fuel would be stored in a shed, underground or above ground. Kaplan stated that they would probably use something like gas stations use to store propane in. Pentel asked about the minimum age requirements. Kaplan stated that at their facility in Wisconsin Dells the minimum age they allowed was between 14 and 16. Keysser stated that he has a 12 year old son that has driven go-carts in Wisconsin Dells. Kaplan stated that these go-carts are different; they are faster and safer. Pentel asked if waivers would be required for people who were underage. Kaplan stated that anyone under 18 would be required to sign a waiver. Keysser asked if helmets would be required. Kaplan stated yes. Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 3 Pentel stated that she is concerned about oil and gas polluting the inside of the building and the outside when the interior is cleaned. She stated that she sees this as an intense auto use and that there are a lot of details that are unanswered and many uncertain aspects to this proposal. Eck asked the applicant if he knows what the decibel noise level would be and if hearing protection would be required. Kaplan stated that he didn't know what the decibel level would be, but that the noise would be contained in the building and that they could sell ear plugs. Rasmussen asked how he knew the noise would stay contained in the building. Kaplan stated that he couldn't guarantee it, but they believe it will and that if the noise level is uncomfortable for customers, they won't want to come back. e Groger asked if the building is air conditioned. Kaplan stated no. Groger suggested requiring the doors be kept closed to keep the noise inside as a condition of approval. Pentel stated that she would also like a condition regarding the outdoor storage of gasoline and oil. e Rasmussen stated that she thinks this is a good idea, but there are so many unanswered questions. She said that she would think the applicant would have looked at the ventilation issues before now. Kaplan said that he is willing to put in whatever ventilation system the City requires. He stated that he realizes that they need to still put things into the space and said he his willing to put the money into it. Olson stated that the applicant has submitted a code analysis and that the Inspections Department has reviewed it and has no issues with the proposed use of the building. Pentel referred to the 3rd Lair and said that skateboarding is pushing oneself on ones own volition much like baseball. She questioned categorizing go-carts as recreational and stated that this is a broad use of the definition of a recreational facility. Keysser stated that it is not just Building Code issues he is concerned about it is also the health code and PCA pollution codes. He said that there are a lot of unknowns in this proposal. Kaplan stated that the use they are proposing would be much cleaner compared to the heavy industrial use that previously took place in this building. Pentel said she wasn't sure about that and cautioned him about making that his final appeal. Shaffer stated that he thinks the Planning Commission is overstepping its bounds. He said that they deal with the outside and that there are other codes governed by other agencies that the applicant is going to have to conform to regarding the issues inside of the building and that the Planning Commission shouldn't be looking at the use inside of buildings in this detail. McAleese stated that he agrees with Shaffer for the most part, but the issues the Commissioners have been discussing are legitimate things to talk about. Shaffer explained that the applicant is not going to be able to talk about his HV AC system until I Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 4 he knows it is going to be done. Rasmussen asked if there are general standards for the kind of air that can be discharged. Pentel said she is not sure the PCA has a standard for emissions for go-cart facilities that are located inside. Shaffer stated that OSHA would probably regulate the standards and that the Planning Commissioners are not experts in these fields. He said that he does agree that the use inside should be examined but how things technically are done should not be. Pentel said that she disagreed with Shaffer about the Planning Commission overstepping its boundaries by looking at inside uses in detail and that the Commission has talked in detail about inside uses in the past. Rasmussen stated that she does think this proposed use should be considered a recreational use. e Groger asked the applicant if he anticipated allowing smoking inside the building. Kaplan stated that there would probably be no smoking allowed. Pentel opened the public hearing. Seeing and hearing no one, she closed the public hearing. Keysser asked about the cities that have similar facilities and their experience with meeting emission standards and if there are PCA and Health Department rules. Olson stated that the Inspections Department is going to tour some cities with this type of facility but haven't as of yet. Eck stated that he has no objections to this facility being at this location and that the parking is adequate but that he is not comfortable about not knowing anything about the internal situation. He stated that he would have difficulty supporting this proposal when e he doesn't know whether this proposal is doable in this space. Rasmussen asked if the Commission has to know all of the details in order to pass it on to the City Council. Pentel said that each Commissioner can individually give their decision. Pentel stated that she wouldn't be supporting the proposal. She questioned whether the proposed use is appropriate in this zoning district. She said she is concerned about gasoline storage, servicing the go-carts, where the vehicles are stored, where smoking is allowed and oil storage. Keysser stated that he agrees with Eck and Pentel and that by ventilating the space the internal issues would be become external issues. Groger stated that he agreed with Shaffer that the Commission is going beyond where it should. He referred to condition number twelve in Olson's memo which states that all other applicable local, state, and federal requirements shall be met and said that they have to rely on staff and the various laws and government agencies. He stated that he Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 5 would like to add some additional conditions but that he thinks it is an appropriate use and he is in favor of the proposal. Shaffer agreed that there should be some additional conditions added but that it is an appropriate use of the space and a complimentary use to the 3fd Lair next door. In regard to the mechanical systems the Inspections Department and other local, state and federal agencies to decide the requirements. He said he is fine with how the track is laid out, but that the number of go-carts concerns him. e McAleese stated that on the technical issue of indoor pollution he feels that issue is before the Planning Commission. He stated that he is not sure if this is recreation and that it is not similar to what you would see in a city park. He said he is worried about stretching the word recreation. It could be argued that a gun range is recreational. He said the City needs to define the word recreation and revise the Zoning Code to allow this use rather than to allow it by conditional use permit. He said he is going to vote against this proposal, not because he is that against it, but because it is an inappropriate use under the Zoning Code. He said he is also concerned about the indoor air quality. He stated that condition number twelve in Olson's memo is useful but when a problem is known there should be a specific condition attached. Pentel reviewed the following conditions of approval that the Planning Commission would like to see added: e All doors shall remain closed. No smoking would be allowed inside the building No exterior noise shall be allowed Exterior Fumes to be contained as to not disrupt surrounding areas Outside storage to be screened with materials compatible with the building Scheduling of the facility for teenage use shall take place after school hours Rasmussen said she wasn't sure if the City could tell them that they can't allow smoking in their own business. Olson asked the Commission if they would be interested in allowing the applicant to table this request. Pentel asked the applicant if he would like to table his request, he stated that he would not like to table it but would like it to move on to the City Council. Olson recommended to the applicant that he talk with the Inspections Department regarding the issues brought up by the Planning Commission. Pentel recommended that the Council think about recreational uses in terms of the Code and how it is interpreted and what the definition of recreational use should be. Keysser suggested that it might also be helpful if staff put together some information from other similar facilities. Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 6 MOVED by Shaffer, and seconded by Groger to approve the request by the applicant to use the building located at 740 and 750 Florida Avenue South for an indoor go-cart facility with the following conditions: 1 . No parking shall be allowed within the landscape areas. 2. Any signage for the building must meet the signage requirements of the City's Sign Code enforced by the Inspections Department. 3. The recommendations of Deputy Fire Marshall, Ed Anderson, as found in his memo dated November 20,2002 become a part of this approval. 4. The outside dumpster must be screened from view with materials compatible with the building. e 5. All deliveries shall take place between 8 am and Noon. 6. Whenever possible, private parties shall be scheduled in evenings and on weekends. 7. No outside music, loud speakers, or public address systems will be allowed. 8. The pro shop shall remain a secondary use to the recreational uses of the facility and shall occupy no more than 600 square feet of the building. 9. The parking lots shall be striped so as to provide for 100 parking spaces. 10. No fuel shall be stored in the building, and all refueling of go-karts shall take place outside the building. 11. Operating hours shall be as follows: Monday through Thursday, 8 am to 11 pm; Friday and Saturday, 8 am to Midnight; Sundays, Noon to 11 pm. e 12. All other applicable local, state, and federal requirements shall be met. 13. Failure to comply with one or more of the above conditions shall be grounds for revocation of the conditional use permit. 14. All doors shall remain closed during business hours. 15. No exterior noise shall be allowed. 16. Exterior fumes shall be contained as to not disrupt surrounding areas. 17. All outside storage must be screened from view with materials compatible with the building. 18. The scheduling of the facility for teenage use shall take place after school hours. The motion was denied 4 to 3. Commissioners Eck, Keysser, McAleese and Pentel voted against the proposal. -- Short Recess -- e e Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission March 24, 2003 Page 7 III. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings Pentel reported on a meeting she attended with the Mayor and other commission chairs regarding the possibility of combining the Building Board of Review and The Board of Zoning Appeals and The Environmental Commission with the Planning Commission. IV. Other Business Olson announced that due to budget constraints, his position with the City has been eliminated. This is his last Planning Commission meeting. V. Adjournment The meeting was adjourned at 8:27 pm.