05-12-03 PC Minutes
Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 12, 2003
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall
Council Chamber, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
May 12, 2003. Chair Pentel called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Chair Pentel and Commissioners Eck, Groger, Keysser,
Rasmussen and Shaffer. Also present were Director of Planning and Development,
Mark Grimes and Administrative Assistant, Lisa Wittman. Commissioner McAleese was
absent.
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I.
Approval of Minutes - March 24, 2003 Planning Commission Meeting
MOVED by Groger, seconded by Keysser and motion carried unanimously to approve
the minutes from March 24, 2003 as submitted.
II. Informal Public Hearing - Conditional Use Permit (CU-1 01)
Applicant: ABC Investment LLC
Address: 800 Lilac Drive North, Golden Valley, MN
Purpose: The applicant would like to use the building for an auto sales/auto
repair facility in the Commercial zoning district.
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Grimes explained that the applicant is requesting a Conditional Use Permit for auto
sales at the former General Motors Training Facility which has been sitting vacant for
several years. Grimes showed a site map and discussed how the property and area has
changed due the reconfiguration of TH 100 and TH 55.
Grimes stated that the property is designated Commercial on the Comprehensive Plan
Map and on the Zoning Map and that the City Code states that outdoor auto sales and
auto repair require a Conditional Use Permit in the Commercial zoning district.
Grimes discussed the applicants proposed plans for the property and stated that they
are not planning to do any changes to the footprint of the building but that are proposing
to enhance the appearance of the exterior of the building by creating a new entrance for
the office and adding new windows. He added that they are also proposing to add some
additional lighting to the site.
Grimes stated that ABC Investment LLC does business as Poquet Auto in St. Louis
Park. The proposed site in Golden Valley would replace their St. Louis Park location.
Poquet would like to do some minor auto repair in Golden Valley, which they do not
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May 12, 2003
Page 2
currently do at their present location. However, there would be no major mechanical
work done.
Grimes discussed the parking requirements and said that currently there are 200
spaces on the site. The site plan submitted by Poquet indicated 132 spaces that would
be used for display and the remainder for employee and customer parking. He stated
that it should be noted that he suggested to the applicant that they make the customer
and employee parking spaces 20 feet deep as required by Code instead of the 18 feet
deep spaces they have indicated on their plans.
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Grimes stated that a concern raised by concerned neighbors he has spoken with has
been auto transport access. He explained that the auto transport trucks would access
the site from the south about 2 to 3 times per week and that he feels there is adequate
space on the site to allow for delivery by these large trucks without a negative impact on
the area.
Grimes discussed the landscape plan submitted by the applicant and stated that there
was an error in his report. The middle area of the parking lot is not going to be
landscaped as mentioned but will remain paved like it is today and will be used for proof
of parking. This area is proposed to be used for drop off area by the transport trucks.
They are planning significant landscaping which includes wrought iron fencing and
about five feet of addition green space area around the perimeter of the site. He
discussed the lighting plan and stated that there are only three additional fixtures. He
stated that the lighting plan will have to be approved by the Building Official and that the
lights would be required to be turned down to security lighting levels after 8 pm.
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Grimes stated that this company employs 9 to 10 people and that based on current
sales expects to sell approximately 1,200 cars per year which would generate about 70
to 80 trips per day which would be significantly less than most any other type of retail
use that could go on the site. He added that car dealerships typically don't cause a lot of
traffic during peak am and pm hours. He explained that the noise level would not be
heightened by this use and that he can't imagine the auto transports would be a
significant problem with drop offs only two to three times per week. He stated that he
has talked to the St. Louis Park Police Department and that there have been very few
problems with the applicant's current operation.
Grimes discussed the list of ten conditions from his memo and added to the list that all
test drives shall take place south of the site toward TH 55 and that there be no flags,
balloons, banners, etc. allowed on the site. He clarified that minor repair to him means
oil changes, alignments, tire replacements, minor brake work and tune ups.
Pentel asked what size of sign the Sign Code would allow. Grimes stated that it is
based on a percentage of the size of the frontage of the building. Grimes said they are
not going to put up a pylon sign and they would have to meet all of the sign code
requirements.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 12, 2003
Page 3
Eck asked Grimes to show again the way the auto transport trucks would drop off the
cars. Grimes referred to the site plan and showed how the trucks would enter the site,
drop the cars off and then exit the site. Eck asked if all the loading would be on their site
and not on the street at all. Grimes said he didn't think the street would be wide enough.
He said that a condition could be put in the permit that all unloading must be done on
the site.
Pentel asked how deep the green space should be along Lilac Drive if the building did
meet the setback requirements. Grimes said it should be 35 feet. Pentel asked what it is
at now. Grimes said it is probably at about 5 feet but that they plan on moving the fence
back to create more green space.
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Groger referred to the display area and asked if the 16-foot double stacked parking
spaces would be adequate. Grimes stated that the City allows this for auto display only.
Groger asked about the pavement going up to the building and asked if there are any
problems with that. Grimes stated that is why he wants the parking spaces 20 feet deep.
Groger asked where the service bays would be. Grimes stated that the three service
bays would be on the east side. Groger questioned that location with the apartment
buildings being to the east if the service doors were open. Grimes said that he has
suggested as a condition of approval that the service doors be kept closed when there
is service being done.
Groger asked if flags surrounding the site would be allowed and stated that it would
seem out of character for this area. Grimes said that the applicant has told him that he
has no intention of putting up any flags.
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Pentel asked if the applicant is asking for a variance from setback requirements for the
green space. Grimes stated that because it is an existing condition they won't require a
variance.
Keysser stated that the real profit margin is in repair, not in sales and asked how the
City is going to ensure that only minor auto repair is going to take place. Grimes stated
that the applicant has said that their intention is only to do minor repairs.
Shaffer asked Grimes to review the traffic issue. He asked what the daily trip count
would be for this proposed use versus an office use. Grimes stated that a high use
would be 100 trips per day. This number is based on what the applicant does in St.
Louis Park now. If the space were used for office it would be 300 to 400 trips per day,
with high peak hour traffic. He stated that this property is zoned Commercial and that
this particular use generates far less traffic than what potentially could go there.
Shaffer referred to the lighting plan and stated that he thought it would improve the site
to have more, lower level decorative poles than the three, 30-foot high poles they are
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May 12, 2003
Page 4
proposing. Grimes stated that is why he wants the Building Official to review the lighting
plan.
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Colin Sievers, Owner, Poquet Auto and ABC Investment LLC, 6009 Wayzata
Boulevard, St. Louis Park, MN 55416, Applicant, stated that he currently has 135
vehicles in his inventory and that sometimes it is higher than that, sometimes it is lower.
He gave a packet of information regarding his company to each Planning Commissioner
and reviewed it with them. He explained that they specialize in cars that are one to three
years old with an average cost of $20,000 and that 80% of their business is from
referrals or repeat business. He said that they aren't trying to generate new business
and that the cars wouldn't be visible from TH 100 or TH 55 because they would be
displayed on the north side of the building. He stated that they haven't had mechanics
on site for 17 years and that they would like to have them to do minor repairs and light
maintenance work for their customers and that they won't be pulling out any
transmissions or engines. He stated that they have been a member of the Better
Business Bureau for 16 years and have not had one complaint. They are a member of
the Northland Independent Auto Dealers Association and that they are the leading
donor for the Cars for Courage charity. He stated that he thinks hey would be a great
addition to the community and that they run a nice, low-key operation.
Groger asked what the maximum inventory might be. Sievers stated approximately 150
cars. Groger stated that the parking for display vehicles seems to be more than
adequate and asked the applicant if he sees any way to increase the green space.
Sievers stated that when he first saw the building he anticipated renting some of the
space out, but then realized they would need all of the space.
Shaffer asked if the parking lot islands could become green space. Sievers stated he
_ had no objection to that he just wanted to keep the proof of parking areas.
Groger asked if all of the vehicles are delivered by auto transport. Sievers stated that
they normally come in 10 to 12 at a time by auto transport.
Keysser asked the applicant if he is leasing or buying the building. Sievers said he is
buying the building.
Pentel asked the applicant where the trash was going to be stored. Rod Miller,
Terranova Real Estate Services, 14685 Langdon Place, Eden Prairie, MN 55347,
Realtor representing the applicant, stated that they haven't worked that out yet.
Rasmussen asked Miller to discuss the height of the lighting. Miller stated that the intent
was to minimize the number of light poles and to make it be more like an office level of
lighting. He stated that they were trying to minimize the amount of light spilling off of the
site and that it is a trade off to either increase the number of poles and decrease the
height of them or to decrease the number of poles and increase the height. He
explained that they have proposed to pull the fence in to allow for more green space
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May 12, 2003
Page 5
and plantings and that the fence is a six-foot with gates and a box with a key for the fire
department.
Pentel referred to the proposed future fence ordinance and stated that the height
requirement in the Commercial zoning district is four feet in the front yard. Grimes
stated that that is a proposed ordinance.
Miller stated that the fence height is open for discussion. He showed the Commission
some elevations and stated that it is their intent to clean the site up to a more
understated, classy, office look.
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Rasmussen asked Miller to comment on the signage. Miller stated that on the south
side of the building on the awnings on the east end there would be some sort of sign for
Poquet auto and a canopy over the entrance on the east end and that would be about it.
Pentel asked if it was their intent to keep the trees on the property. Miller stated that
there are some on the north end of the property they would like to keep and some on
the northwest that could be thinned out. He added that there are some on the south that
are nice and that they would like to also keep.
Pentel stated that there are sidewalks along the frontage road that end by this property.
She asked how the City is going to shepherd sidewalks to Meadowbrook. Grimes stated
that sidewalks would have to go in along the curb and that he would find out what the
intention is for sidewalks from the Public Works Director.
Pentel opened the public hearing.
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Arlene Weinzierl, 600 Lilac Drive North #310, stated that she wouldn't want the Planning
Commission to minimize the impact this proposal would have on the residents in the
apartments to the east. She said that the people who live up higher would still be able to
see the car lot. She stated that the proposal doesn't sound as bad as she thought but
that they already have a lot more traffic and that another concern is trash and lighting.
Richard Martens, Brookstone, 7400 Metro Boulevard, Edina, MN, Project Manager for
820 North Lilac Building, stated that it is important that the landscaping around the site
stays in good shape. He suggested that more landscaping be done, possibly berming
as a relief from the sea of asphalt on this site. He said he likes the fence idea and
agrees with the lighting plan as long as it is down cast lighting. He suggested not
allowing cars to be displayed on any type of raised platforms hoped that the car
transport trucks would be sensitive to the office dwellers as well as the apartment
dwellers. He asked if the applicant would have to provide any storm water drainage on
the site and said that he thinks if they keep their site nice the proposal would be all right
with him.
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May 12, 2003
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Pentel asked if this site drains to the new ponds in that area. Grimes stated that he
believed that that whole quadrant does.
Sandy Robin, 921 Toledo Ave. N., stated that since the road opened up she has driven
Lilac Road every day and she is very concerned about traffic and transport traffic and
that she feels that this type of business is not appropriate even though it is zoned
Commercial because it is mostly residential.
John Miller, 1025 Unity Ave. N., stated that most of his concerns are traffic. He said that
nobody has control of how traffic comes and goes through the area. He is concerned
about the traffic going north. He stated that this property was zoned Commercial before
the frontage road was opened up and questioned if it should still be. He said that maybe
50 of the cars would go north through the residential area. He stated that the design of
the frontage road is not too swift in the way it curves in and out and questioned if the
ornamental fence would be giving drivers less visibility.
Judy Davis, 1120 Toledo Ave. N., stated that she's got two young children she takes to
the park. She said that her concern is the car transports and that she has a hard time
seeing those come in that area especially with the narrow streets.
Steve Robin, 25 Ottawa Ave. N., stated that he thinks the proposed use is almost
completely inappropriate for the terrain. The neighborhood is quiet, serene and a low
traffic affair. He discussed the history of the entrance into the Thotland area and how
circumstances have changed. He stated that if there are more than two cars on Holiday
Lane it is a problem. He discussed the nature of used car lots and said that Poquet has
an outstanding reputation; however, they are a used car lot. He said that this use will
draw people into the neighborhood from other areas and if they miss the cut off and
don't understand and get off on Duluth they are going to come through their
neighborhood. He said that he thinks that despite the happy face that is being put on
this proposal inevitably they are going to be on Unity, Thotland, and Angelo testing cars
and inevitably trucks coming to deliver cars are going to be parked on that road
especially in the winter. He said that there are a lot of issues being glossed over. He
explained that when Golden Valley High School had football games his family could
hear play-by-play announcements and that he is sure they will be able to hear the
mechanics working on cars. He said that he thinks the trips in and out are being
minimized severely and that there are always going to be people cruising the lot who
are not from their neighborhood. He stated that the hours of an auto dealership are not
going to be the same as that of the neighborhood and that the happy face that was put
on the traffic was fine but not the point when the people in the neighborhood is what
counts. He said that he doesn't think 70 to 80 trips per day is realistic and clearly there
are going to be more people looking than buying. He stated that this usage isn't serving
the neighborhood and if a different retail or commercial business went in that location
the people from the neighborhood would use those businesses as opposed to people
coming in from outside of the neighborhood. He stated that he thinks this proposal
would be more appropriate along 1-394 where the test drives are on 1-394. The people
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May 12, 2003
Page 7
that live in this neighborhood live there because it is an end destination. He said he
urges the Planning Commission to reject this application.
Lee Haug, 1221 Unity Ave. N., suggested that the Planning Commissioners drive
through the area. He said that parents could push their young kids down the middle of
the street in their strollers. He said he feels it is an inappropriate use. He said that the
City could advise that the traffic go south when they leave the parking lot, but that
doesn't mean they have to. He asked what could be more perfect than an office use in
their neighborhood. He said they are the victims of the widening of Highway 100.and
they now have the narrow opening of Lilac Drive into their neighborhood. He said if the
City approved the idea of a used auto dealer they'd be ruining it for the residents that
live there.
e John Miller, 1030 Lilac Dr. N., stated that he has spent thousands of dollars expanding
his home and that the traffic in front of his house has already increased a lot. He said he
could see a lot of kids playing and people walking in front of his house. He stated that
there is a really sharp curve in front of the apartment building and if people are not used
to living in the area driving would be dangerous especially in the winter and he is
concerned.
Steve Yingst, 1020 Unity Ave. N., stated that he wanted the Planning Commission to
consider that where there are cars there is crime. He said that the number of kids in the
neighborhood has never been greater and adding a used car lot could be catastrophic.
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Julia Carlstrom, 5200 Thotland Road, stated that she thinks it is so unfair to even have
this as a consideration. She said it is going to increase their traffic and people are going
to get lost in their area. She said that the time that people would be coming to look at
cars is the time her kids ride their bikes and that there are going to be problems with the
transport trucks and that there are already problems with the traffic because the streets
are too narrow and that they should be wider. She said she just doesn't think this is fair
to have this in their area because they have been so tucked away and they are being
forced to be a more open area. She stated that the site should be leveled and rezoned
and that it looks like a nice proposal but not in their area.
Brian Bennett, 931 Toledo Ave. N., stated that Holiday Lane should be no on-street
parking regardless of what happens with this project and that trash pick-up should be
done during normal business hours rather than at 5:30 am.
Seeing and hearing no one, Pentel closed the publiC hearing.
Pentel asked if Holiday Lane is already no parking. Grimes stated that the idea is to
make streets narrower so that people don't drive so fast. Keysser said the question was
if the street was no parking. Grimes stated that he has not had any complaints about
cars parking on Holiday Lane.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
May 12, 2003
Page 8
Rasmussen stated that she is concerned about the height of the fencing causing
visibility issues around the curves. Grimes stated that the plans were reviewed by the
City Engineer and that he didn't have any issues with visibility.
Keysser stated that the key question seems to be the traffic going too fast and
questioned installing speed bumps. Grimes stated that speed bumps would not be
installed and explained that the frontage road was put in to bring traffic north of the
railroad tracks.
Grimes stated that all the City can do is put in the permit that test drivers go to the
south. Shaffer asked if the City can require them to put up signs. Grimes stated that it
can be added at a condition of approval. Groger asked if a right turn only sign could be
put up at the east entrance to direct traffic to the south. Grimes stated yes.
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Grimes stated that in regard to trash pick up there is an ordinance about trash not being
picked up before 7:00 am.
Keysser asked if there were test drives done when the facility was the General Motors
training center. Grimes stated there weren't test drives done, and that sometimes there
were up to 200 people there, but that the frontage road didn't go through.
Rasmussen stated that the character of the area is bound to change due to the road
construction. She stated that she thinks people are going to come and go from TH 55
and that she doesn't see it being as rosy as the applicants say, but not as bad as the
residents say. She added that this area has a high degree of stress right now and that
the City should be sensitive to that.
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Groger stated that his first reaction to this proposal was no way in this area. He said that
now he thinks this is one of the best uses for this location because it was already made
for working on vehicles. He said that the issue of traffic going to the north is a concern
but that steps can be taken to help that. He said that he thinks it is unfair to penalize the
proponent for using the new road going to the north. He understands the neighbors
concerns completely but the proponent seems to be a responsible member of the
business community. He said he would be in favor of voting for the proposal with many
conditions.
Eck stated that he agreed with Groger. The access now comes into the neighborhood. It
is a fact and any use that comes into that building is going to come into the
neighborhood. He said that it certainly seems to be a reasonable use.
Keysser stated that he liked the not left turn sign idea and stated that he also agreed
that this proposal seems to be the least destructive if traffic going north into the
neighborhood could somehow be curtailed.
Pentel said she can't support the proposal. She said she thinks Golden Valley has its
lion's share of places to buy a used car and although the City can't control where
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May 12, 2003
Page 9
businesses locate, they are just getting that much closer to residential areas and that is
a concern. However, auto dealerships are allowed by conditional use. She said that she
is glad that the applicant is buying the facility and not leasing it and that she would like
to see a four-foot high fence around the perimeter. Grimes said that he would like the
City Engineer to look at the fence height and visibility issue again. She said it is
unfortunate not to be able to get green space and that if she were just to look at the
building in isolation she could support it.
The Commissioners discussed the following conditions of approval.
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The site plans submitted with the application shall become a part of this approval.
These plans include a survey prepared by John Oliver and Associates dated 4/10/03;
Preliminary Parking Plan prepared by John Oliver dated 4/11/03; GM Training Bldg.
Remodeling Plan (Sheets SD 1-3 prepared by Barbeau Architects dated 4/11/03; and
Landscape Plan dated 3/27/03.
All signage shall meet the requirements of the City's Sign Code. There will be no signs
displayed or painted in car windows. There shall be no balloons on the site. There shall
be no signs painted or displayed from the windows of the building.
The Building Official shall approve the final lighting plan for the site. Lighting shall be
turned down after 8 pm to provide for security lighting only.
The hours of operation shall be 9 am-8 pm Monday-Friday and 9 am-5pm on Saturday.
There will be no Sunday sales or service of cars.
No outside speakers shall be permitted on the site.
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The recommendation of Deputy Fire Marshal Ed Anderson found in the memo to Mark
Grimes Dated April 17, 2003 shall become a part of the recommendations.
All applicable local, stated and federal requirements shall be met.
Failure to comply with one or more of the above conditions shall be grounds for
revocation of the conditional use permit.
All landscaped areas shall have a sprinkler system in order to keep plants and sod
adequately watered.
Only minor auto repair shall be done inside building with the outside overhead doors
closed at all times. Minor auto repairs include oil changes, alignment, replacement of
tires, minor brake work and tune-ups.
All test drives shall take place south to TH 55.
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May 12, 2003
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No flags, balloons or other attention grabbing devices shall be attached to cars.
Any trash containers must be held inside of the building.
Any trash container pick-up can not happen before 7:00 am or after 10:00 pm on
weekdays.
There shall be no outside storage other than vehicles permitted on the site
There shall be no display of cars on any type of platform.
All deliveries of automobiles by auto transport trucks shall occur on site during business
hours.
e The height of all fences shall not exceed six (6) feet.
The southeast exit of the parking lot shall have a sign posted which reads "right turn
only"
Landscaped islands that don't affect the number of parking stalls shall be added to the
parking lot.
Add to number 3 of Grimes report - Light poles are to be twenty feet in height or less
and the City's Building Official shall approve the final lighting plan.
Rasmussen asked about speed bumps on Thotland Road. Grimes stated there is no
history in Golden Valley of having speed bumps.
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Pentel asked if there are any places in Golden Valley where there are signs that say no
test driving in neighborhood. Grimes stated that he didn't think so, but that they could
ask for one.
Pentel asked if the gates would be open on Sundays. Sievers stated no.
Shaffer stated that he was also alarmed at another used car lot being proposed in
Golden Valley. He said at first there is going to be some new traffic concerns. He stated
that he thinks most people will go south on TH 55 for test drives and that with signage it
won't be a problem. He said he thinks the site could be improved and that he
understands the neighbors concerns. He stated that if it were an office there would be a
lot more traffic.
Rasmussen asked if the City could ask the applicant to encourage their employees and
trucks to also drive south of the site. Sievers said that the transport trucks can't go into
residential areas and that they would come into the area from TH 55.
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May 12, 2003
Page 11
MOVED by Keysser, seconded by Groger and motion carried 5 to 1 to approve the
Conditional Use Permit request for ABC Investment LLC to use the building at 800 Lilac
Drive North for an auto sales/auto repair facility located in the Commercial zoning
district. Pentel voted against the proposal.
-- Short Recess --
III. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
Pentel reported on the April 15, 2003 City Council Meeting and stated that the request
by Kart America for an indoor go-cart facility at 740-750 Florida Avenue South was
approved.
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IV. Other Business
A. Preliminary review of changes to Section 11.21 of the City Code (Single-Family)
Grimes asked the Planning Commission to review the preliminary changes to
Section 11.21 of the City Code and asked them to give feedback at the next
Planning Commission meeting.
B. Review of fence regulations Section 4.07 of the City Code (Fences and Screening)
Grimes stated that the fence regulations aren't officially part of the Zoning Code, but
he wanted to show them to the Planning Commission and get their feedback.
e C. Demographic data submitted by Arnie Zachman
Grimes referred to the demographic data submitted by Arnie Zachman and reminded
the Planning Commission that Mr. Zachman told them he would be submitting this
information when the Housing Plan was discussed at the March 10, 2003 Planning
Commission meeting.
V. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:24 pm.