07-26-04 Joint PC-CC Minutes
Joint Meeting
of the
City Council and Planning Commission
A joint meeting of the City Council and Planning Commission was held at the Golden
Valley City Hall, Council Conference Room, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley,
Minnesota, on Tuesday, July 26,2004. The meeting was called to order by Planning
Commission Chair Pentel at 7 pm.
Those present were Mayor Loomis, Council Members Freiberg, Shaffer, Grayson, and
Planning Commissioners Eck, Rasmussen, Pentel, Hackett, Schmidgall and
Waldhauser. Also present were Tom Burt, City Manager, Allen Barnard, City Attorney,
Bill Thibault, Planning Consultant, Mark Grimes, Director of Planning and Development,
Adam Fulton, Planning Intern and Lisa Wittman, Administrative Assistant. Planning
Commissioner Keysser was absent.
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I.
Discuss Draft of Planned Unit Development (PUD) section of the Zoning
Code
Pentel stated that the Planning Commission started working on revising the PUD
ordinance in 2000 and that Bill Thibault was brought on as a consultant in 2002. She said
that the Planning Commission has seen one draft version of this PUD ordinance and that
this version of the ordinance was updated from their comments and concerns. She asked
Thibault to give a brief history of the rewriting of this PUD ordinance and to go through it
page by page.
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Bill Thibault, Thibault Associates, 11712 Wayzata Blvd., Minnetonka, MN, gave a brief
history of the changes that were made to the PUD ordinance. He explained how he
evaluated the current ordinance, visited approximately 60 locations and took pictures of
each PUD site. He said that he compared Golden Valley's PUD ordinance to four other
cities. He explained some of the major changes to the ordinance such as a pre-
application process and requiring neighborhood meetings with developers. He added that
the Planning Commission's role has been expanded in this PUD ordinance.
Pentel asked if zoning changes require a 4/5 vote from the City Councilor a simple
majority. Barnard said that it is a simple majority in most cases unless the zoning is being
changed from Commercial or Industrial to Residential. Grimes added that Comprehensive
Plan Map Amendments require a 4/5 vote.
Pentel asked if the existing PUDs are going to be brought into conformance with the
Zoning Code. Grimes stated that when the Zoning Map was updated all of the PUDs were
brought into conformance with the Zoning Code, but there are still some PUDs that need
to be brought into conformance with the Comprehensive Plan Map.
Thibault stated that the City has been approving PUDs by ordinance and that he thinks it
is a fair and useable approach. Barnard explained that PUDs historically were considered
an overlay district and that it wasn't until recently that the underlying zoning was made to
match.
Minutes of a joint meeting with the Planning Commission and City Council
July 26, 2004
Page 2
Hackett asked if the way PUDs are currently done is more analogous to spot zoning
because the City is reacting rather than directing. Thibault said all PUDs should be
compared with the Comprehensive Land Map.
A general discussion was held between the City Council and Planning Commission and
several grammatical errors were identified and will be corrected in the next version of the
PUD Ordinance that will be going to Planning Commission. A more specific discussion
followed.
Freiberg referred to page 1, line 10 and asked what "contemporary land planning
principals" means and if contemporary is meant to be a fluid term and he is concerned
about land planning fads. Thibault said that "contemporary land planning" came from
mixing the language from different drafts of the PUD ordinance. He suggested maybe not
using the term "contemporary land planning" at all.
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Grayson asked that the Planning Commission look at the language regarding design and
building materials and how that is relative to the role of the Building Board of Review.
Hackett said that is where design guidelines would be helpful to the Commissions.
Loomis referred to the words "high quality" and said the word "quality" seems subjective
and implies a judgment. She suggested changing the wording to "degree". Pentel said
that the term "best practices" came up a lot during the Envision process. Barnard said that
the language referring to "high quality" is in the purpose and intent clause, which is not
really enforceable by law. Shaffer said he thinks most developers could read this PUD
ordinance and understand what the City is looking for.
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Pentel said she thought there was going to be something in the PUD ordinance that
stated how much window space could be covered with signs and how much had to be left
open. Waldhauser asked if the City could enforce window sign issues. Barnard stated that
it depends how the ordinance is written. Pentel said that she wants to be sure that any
special conditions in a PUD permit are adhered to, and written in the PUD Permit.
Grayson asked if the City's current sign ordinance would override what is written in a PUD
Permit or if signs are addressed in the PUD permit. Grimes said the City does require a
sign plan as part of the General Plan Application that has to be consistent with the Sign
Code. He added that the Sign Code is not a part of the Zoning Code, so the PUD
ordinance cannot vary from the Sign Code.
Pentel referred to the proposed language about fountains and asked who would be
responsible for the maintenance.
Loomis suggested adding something to the ordinance about what the City receives out of
a PUD. Eck said he thinks Subdivision 3 (E)(3) would cover that because it states that
proposed developments need to be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and other
City plans. Loomis said that a developer wouldn't necessarily need a PUD to be
consistent with the Comprehensive Plan.
Minutes of a joint meeting with the Planning Commission and City Council
July 26, 2004
Page 3
Waldhauser referred to the list regarding the provisions that need to be met for a PUD
and asked why it if repeated over and over throughout the ordinance. She said if there is
a concise list she would like to see it listed just once. Pentel explained why the list of
provisions is listed in multiple places. Grimes suggested language be added stating that
applicants must show through the PUD Plans and applications that the requested PUD
meets and is consistent with the intent and purpose provisions of this and other sections
instead of listing the provisions over and over.
Grayson said there have been instances where a potential applicant has held
neighborhood meetings prior to submitting applications. Grimes stated that the pre-
application process will help and that staff highly recommends that applicants have
neighborhood meetings before neighbors hear about a project from the City.
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Grayson said maybe property owners more than 500 feet around a project need to
receive notification of a neighborhood meeting. Grimes said he generally works with
developers on what would be considered a reasonable area and often times it goes
beyond a 500 feet area. Shaffer suggested the following language be added: all property
owners within 500 feet of the PUD, or a zone appropriate for a specific project to be
determined by city staff at the time of application shall be given a hearing notice.
Rasmussen asked about net and gross densities. Grimes explained that gross density is
the overall area and that net density is the area minus lakes, streets, public areas, etc.
Loomis suggested adding language regarding lot coverage to the list of PUD provisions.
Grimes said that lot coverage could be added to the list.
Grayson asked if there is a need to have proof of parking language in the ordinance.
Grimes said the flexibility of a PUD allows for proof of parking.
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Pentel said she would like the word "findings" used more often. Thibault said that the
Council makes the ultimate findings so he purposely left it out. Loomis said findings from
the Planning Commission helps the City Council know what they are thinking.
Loomis stated that she didn't notice in this ordinance if the City asks developers for a
lighting plan. Grimes said the City doesn't have a lighting standard now and that the
Building Official and City Engineer revieV{the lighting plans. Pentel said that lighting plans
are mentioned on line 287 and suggested that it be moved to the section regarding the
applicant's narrative.
Shaffer asked if a PUD's tree preservation plan has to follow the City's tree preservation
ordinance. Grimes said that developers have to meet or exceed the City's ordinance.
Loomis referred to the section regarding private streets and asked why the City would
allow any street for any of the first four reasons. Thibault explained that there are some
equipment requirements and that some city streets may need to be a certain width or
grade. Loomis said that width isn't listed as one of the factors. Thibault gave an example
of allowing a private street in a case where there were oak trees that a developer was
trying to save. Grimes said allowing private streets also depends on if the buildings have
a sprinkler system.
Minutes of a joint meeting with the Planning Commission and City Council
July 26, 2004
Page 4
Freiberg referred to line 382 which states that private streets shall utilize a minimum
grade and asked if "minimum grade" should be defined. Grimes said that "minimum
grade" is a commonly understood term among engineers. Loomis asked why the City
wouldn't require private streets to meet the same standards as public streets. Burt
suggested referencing safety standards in the ordinance.
Freiberg referred to the hard cover percentages and asked what "reasonable" means.
Loomis asked if there are hard cover percentages in other zoning districts. Grimes said
that there are lot coverage percentages in the R-1 zoning district. Pentel said she is not
happy with 90% maximum hard cover for Commercial-Retail use. Thibault said that when
a development is done in the downtown area it would have almost 90% of hard cover
area. Pentel suggested that the City complete an impervious service inventory. Fulton
said he could do a study on impervious surface percentages.
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Loomis asked if this ordinance covers the City's requirements regarding water and
utilities. Grimes explained that water and utilities are covered in another section of the
City Code and that the City does not allow wells.
Grayson referred to line 414 regarding the hours in which garbage can be removed from
a site. Barnard said that this ordinance would not supercede the existing ordinance and
that this proposed PUD ordinance is more onerous.
Grimes referred to line 420 and stated that the language referring to garages can be
deleted because the City doesn't allow garages in the Commercial zoning district.
Pentel asked if in the developer's narrative the City can ask them to explain how they
might maintain the affordability of the houses.
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Loomis asked if the grounds for revocation of a PUD Permit should be spelled out.
Thibault stated that in most cases the City would not want to revoke PUD permits.
Grayson asked why letters of credit are being used instead of bonds. Thibault stated that
letters of credit are easier to work with and that bonds are a mess. Shaffer said the there
can't be a letter of credit for performance.
Eck said that in his view the PUD ordinance is not intended to facilitate the construction of
single family homes like on property such as the Hidden Lakes peninsula where without a
PUD they could not be built. He asked if there is someway something could be added to
the ordinance to protect against that. Grayson said that it is ultimately up to the City
Council at the time. Pentel asked if Hidden Lakes could be done the way it was if this
ordinance was used. Eck said that the reason the streets in Hidden Lakes are a mess is
because the developer wanted higher density.
Grimes said he would work with Thibault to make all of the suggested changes and
grammatical errors and then bring the ordinance back to the Planning Commission.
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Minutes of a joint meeting with the Planning Commission and City Council
July 26, 2004
Page 5
II. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
No other meetings were discussed.
III. Other Business
No other business was discussed.
IV. Adjournment
The meeting adjourned at 9:40 pm.