07-10-06 PC Minutes
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Regular Meeting of the
Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
A regular meeting of the Planning Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall,
Council Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Monday,
June 26, 2006. Chair Keysser called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Planning Commissioners Cera, Eck, Keysser, Kluchka, McCarty,
Schmidgall and Waldhauser. Also present was Director of Planning and Development
Mark Grimes and Administrative Assistant Lisa Wittman.
1. Approval of Minutes
June 26, 2006 Planning Commission Meeting
MOVED by Eck, seconded by Waldhauser and motion carried unanimously to approve
the June 26, 2006 minutes as submitted.
2. Informal Public Hearing - Minor Subdivision SU08-08 - 4736 Glenwood
Avenue
Applicant: Ben and Barb Vogel
Address:
4736 Glenwood Avenue
Purpose:
The Subdivision would create two separate lots in order to
keep the existing home and to construct one new home. The
existing garage will be relocated
Grimes explained the subdivision request and stated that this property is located on the
northeast corner of Ottawa and Glenwood Avenues, east of Highway 100 and south of
Breck School. He stated that the current lot is approximately 25,000 square feet in size.
After the proposed subdivision Lot 1 would be 13,680 square feet and Lot 2 would be
11,870 square feet. He added that the property is zoned Single Family (R-1) and
designated Low Density on the Comprehensive Plan map and the proposal meets all of
the requirements of the subdivision and zoning codes.
Grimes referred to the site plan and explained that the existing garage located on the
property will need to be relocated to a conforming location before the final plat is
approved. He explained that this proposal is currently being reviewed by Hennepin
County and that they will more than likely ask for additional right of way or easement area
along Glenwood Avenue.
Grimes referred to City Engineer Jeff Oliver's staff report and stated that the City will
require a final grading, drainage and erosion control plan.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 2
. He explained that according to the preliminary grading plan there will be a substantial
amount of fill used on this property and that most of the new home's drainage will go
toward the back of the lot which is the current drainage pattern in the area. He said that
the proposal does create odd-shaped lots but they do meet all of the requirements for lots
in the single family zoning district.
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Keysser said that the most significant issue is the drainage. He referred to the site plan
and noted that there is a 14-foot drop in elevation on this property. He asked if the
applicants are requesting any variances. Grimes said no.
Kluchka noted that the conditions of approval in Grimes' staff report did not include
relocating the existing garage. Grimes said he would add that as a condition of approval
before this proposal goes to the City Council. Kluchka said he was thinking that the
garage should have been moved before the city accepted this application but as long as it
is made a condition of final approval he is ok with that.
Eck stated that after looking at the property he has to question City Engineer Jeff Oliver's
staff report that says the existing drainage is north through the back yards. He said that
the northwest corner of the proposed new lot is really a hole and there is no way water
can drain uphill toward the north so he doesn't understand Oliver's statement. He asked if
there is a different way to direct the run-off away.
Peter Knaeble, Terra Engineering, handed out a rendering of the proposed lots. He
explained that he has been working with the applicants on the proposal and that it is their
understanding that it meets the zoning requirements for a subdivision. He referred to his
tree preservation plan and explained that they will only need to remove two small trees
which will be transplanted to another location on the property. He stated that utilities will
be provided off of Ottawa Ave. and they will meet all of the Engineering Department's
requirements. He referred to his preliminary grading plan and explained that the majority
of the drainage will go toward the front of the lot onto Ottawa Ave. and any rear yard
drainage will meet Bassett Creek Watershed and Engineering Department requirements
using best management storm water management techniques. He said he understands
the staffs concerns but they are prepared to meet all of the city requirements without
requiring variances and they will meet all of the drainage and erosion control
requirements.
Keysser asked Knaeble to give the Commission more details about the drainage plan and
the proposed new home. Knaeble said they don't have the house plans yet, but it will
probably be a 2-story home with an approximate footprint of 1,000 square feet. He
explained that the majority of drainage can be directed to the front which will then go to a
storm water drain further down the street to the north. He added that they don't show a
high level of detail on the preliminary drainage plan yet because they don't know the style
of the proposed new house.
Keysser suggested using berming. Knaeble said there is already some berming on the
property but that they will probably do more.
Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 3
. Eck stated that the finished floor of the proposed new home will be lower than the existing
home so there is going to be water going toward the new home. Knaeble explained that
there will be some sort of drainage technique used to direct the water away from the
proposed new home. Eck stated that there is a requirement that there can be no more
water leaving the property than there is now. Keysser asked how the City knows the
current water flow. Knaeble explained that they had to do drainage calculations to figure
that out. Grimes added that at this point in the process, the applicants and Mr. Knaeble
have shown the City that this proposal appears to work.
McCarty asked if the work being proposed is the work that will actually be done or if
something else could possibly be done. Knaeble stated that what is being proposed is
what will be done. Grimes added that the work wouldn't be done at all unless the
proposed new lot sells. He explained that Mr. Knaeble is showing the City that his
proposal will work in order for a new home to be built if the applicants sell the lot. He
stated that whoever buys the new lot would be subject to the same requirements.
Knaeble added that the grading work won't be done until the lot is sold.
Waldhauser stated that because of the odd shape of the proposed new lots she can
envision the homeowners coming back to the City with a variance request because so
little of the lot is actually usable.
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Schmidgall stated that there is an inconsistency with the elevation contours shown on the
survey where the existing garage is located. Knaeble stated that instead of the number
897 it should read 867. He also clarified that there is an 8-foot drop in elevation, not the
previous noted 14 feet, from the high point on the lot to the street.
Keysser asked if the soil in this location is clay. Knaeble said he expects it to be sandy
clay.
Ben Vogel, applicant, stated that he wanted to clarify that they are not making this request
in order to "cash in and leave", they intend to stay. He said that although the lots may be
oddly shaped the current lot is more or less double the size of the lots in the area and the
new lots won't be much smaller than other lots nearby.
Keysser asked the applicants about their plans to sell the proposed new lot.
Barb Vogel, applicant, stated that she thinks they will probably sell the proposed new lot
fairly soon. She added that they are also concerned about drainage for their area and for
their own home. Mr. Vogel added that they are not interested in building a monstrosity
either.
Keysser asked the applicants how much standing water they've had on their property in
the past. Mr. Vogel stated that they've had a "pond" develop in their yard that lasts for 3 to
6 days approximately 7 out of the last 9 years they've lived there.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 4
Cera noted that the applicants mentioned adding on to their existing home and asked if
they would need a variance to do that.
Mrs. Vogel stated that they would just be relocating their existing garage and attaching it
to their home and that it is not their intention to request any variances. She added that
they want to keep their neighbors as happy as they can.
Keysser opened the public hearing.
Lewis Seltz, attorney representing Berkeley Nelson, 18 Ottawa Avenue North, stated that
Mr. Nelson is concerned about the style of home that will be built on the proposed new lot
because most of the homes in the neighborhood are ranch style homes so a 2-story
home would not fit in.
Seltz referred to the tree preservation plan and noted that it did not include two Chinese
Elm trees that are located on the southwest corner of Mr. Nelson's property. Keysser
stated that those trees are not located on the subject property so they couldn't be
removed. Seltz stated that the excavation for the proposed new home could destroy them
and the fill will reduce oxygen to the trees and they probably wouldn't survive. He gave
the Commissioners a letter from Davey Tree Expert Company regarding the possible
impacts construction may have on Mr. Nelson's trees.
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Seltz stated that if the property is filled it is highly unlikely that the drainage and run-off
volume will remain the same. He referred to the preliminary grading plan and stated that
the silt fence shown on the plan is only a temporary erosion control measure, not a
permanent solution. He said that for the above reasons Mr. Nelson is opposed to the
project.
Violet Meyer, 35 Natchez Avenue North, stated that in some years the water is worse
than others and that with this proposal there will be more water. She said there has been
a terrible mosquito problem and that they can't have gardens in their back yards because
of all the water. She stated that there are several lots in the area that are much larger and
she is opposed to dividing this property.
Carole Epstein, 30 Ottawa Avenue North, stated that her back yard is also very wet and
hard to mow. She asked how much of the lot is going to be filled. Keysser stated that the
City doesn't know because the house hasn't been designed yet, but the applicant will
have to show the City how they plan to build the proposed new house. Grimes added that
the garage has to be a foot higher than the street level and that any run-off can't be
greater than it is right now. Epstein said she doesn't feel comfortable with the preliminary
grading plan and she doesn't want to see another house on that property.
Tim Anderson, 80 Ottawa Avenue North, reiterated that there is a big water issue in this
area. He said that two out of the last four springs the whole entire park area was filled
with water.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 5
. He said he doesn't know where the water from the proposed new house is going to go,
the sewers fill up, there are ducks in their backyards and mosquitoes are a problem. He
said the water table is where it is and he doesn't know how it's not going to be worse.
Thom Melcher, 4620 Glenwood Avenue, said that the Vogels are ideal neighbors but his
concern is for the neighborhood feeling. He said he is anxious about lots being divided
and property being filled in. He asked how the City is going to handle it and make sure it
fits in with the neighborhood because he doesn't want to start getting "creep" into other
areas. He asked about the requirements for a subdivision. Keysser explained some of the
requirements for subdividing a lot. He said that there are minimum lot sizes, setback
requirements, height requirements and lot coverage ratio requirements. Grimes added
that the City Council and the Planning Commission will be discussing in-fill development
to see if something can be done about the types of homes that are being built. He stated
that the applicants could have as a condition of the sale of the lot that they want some say
about what gets built on the new lot.
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Mr. Vogel said he wants to make it clear that rain doesn't just flow on his lot. There are a
lot of existing problems right now and that it is not his intent to be the source of additional
drainage problems. Keysser added that it is also possible that this subdivision could be a
solution to help fix some of the drainage issues. He asked if the condition of adding a rain
garden could be added to this proposal. Grimes stated that the City Engineer has said
that a rain garden would not be appropriate on this property. Waldhauser said the water
table may be too high for a rain garden also. She asked where the storm system drains
to. Grimes said he thinks the storm water flows to Natchez Pond and eventually to
Sweeney Lake. He added that back yard drainage problems are common and that some
of the homes that are in this area now probably would have been built differently today to
reduce drainage problems.
Seeing and hearing no one else wishing to comment, Keysser closed the public hearing.
Kluchka asked Grimes how the Commission should address the issue of the two Chinese
Elm trees on Mr. Nelson's property. (18 Ottawa Ave. N.) Grimes said he will make the
Environmental Coordinator aware of the trees. He said he doesn't know how he will
address trees that are on another property but he'd have it reviewed prior to the
subdivision going to the City Council. Keysser asked Kluchka if he wanted the protection
of the trees listed as a condition of approval. Kluchka said yes.
Cera referred to the subdivision code and stated that if a subdivision adversely affects
neighboring properties the Planning Commission does not have to recommend approval.
He said he is not convinced that there won't be any adverse affects on the neighboring
properties until he sees a more detailed drainage plan. Keysser said that even if the City
Council approves this subdivision request the ultimate buyer of the lot will have to submit
a drainage plan to the City and that all that the City would be doing now is permitting the
subdivision.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 6
Cera said another issue is the triangular shape of the proposed new lots. He said he is
concerned about the properties being viable. Keysser said that is not an issue for the
Planning Commission. Waldhauser said she thinks the City should have some concern
about the shape of the lots and that there are a lot of ways to get the required street
frontage without having these triangular shapes.
Grimes explained that since these proposed lots would be corner lots, each side needs to
have 100 feet of frontage. He said that staff did review these plans with Mr. Knaeble and
this was really the only way to make it work with all the requirements. Waldhauser said
she would rather grant a variance regarding the street frontage than to allow these
triangular shaped lots.
Eck said that although he thinks the Planning Commission doesn't have a legal basis for
denying this subdivision, it is a very strange lot and he is not convinced yet that this
proposal isn't going to exacerbate the drainage problem. Grimes stated that at this point
in time the applicants have submitted a plan that according the City Engineer appears to
work. He reiterated that the proposal is subject to a final drainage and erosion control
plan.
Kluchka stated that it looks like the applicants have done everything they need to do. He
asked what mechanisms are in place to prove that the drainage was not made worse
once everything is done and what recourse the neighbors have if it is worse. Grimes
explained that the Building Official and the City Engineer will have to approve the plans.
He added that the City can also require cash reserves, maintenance agreements and levy
assessments to make sure any issues are fixed.
Keysser asked if the City can require performance bonds. Grimes said yes and explained
that the City has a big burden to the state and the watershed district to make sure
measurements are taken that will ensure that drainage structures and plans work.
Kluchka said he understands that staff is dedicated but questioned the mechanisms in
place to make sure the applicants drainage plan works. Grimes said that the Planning
Commission could add a condition of approval regarding some kind of agreement as
recommended by the Public Works Department that will make sure that the proposed
drainage plan will work properly and be maintained.
Keysser clarified that three conditions will be added to the existing six from Grimes' staff
report. The first is that the existing garage will be relocated to a conforming location prior
to final plat approval; the second is that the tree preservation plan shall include the two
Chinese elm trees located on the southwest corner of 18 Ottawa Ave. N. and the third is
that an agreement or plan as recommended by the Public Works Department regarding
the maintenance of a drainage plan is implemented.
Barb Vogel stated that she is also concerned about an oak tree on the southeast corner
of 18 Ottawa Ave. N. She added that if they were able to vacate part of Ottawa Avenue
she thinks that the lots could be shaped differently. Grimes stated that the City Engineer
has not recommended vacating the easement as requested on Ottawa Ave.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 7
MOVED by Kluchka, seconded by McCarty and motion carried 6 to 1 to recommend
approval of the subdivision request at 4736 Glenwood with the following conditions.
Commissioner Cera voted no.
1. The three plans prepared by Terra Engineering and dated 6/9/06 shall become a part
of the approval (Preliminary Plat/Preliminary Utility Plan, Existing Conditions Plan and
Preliminary Grading Plan/Erosion Control Plan.
2. The preliminary tree preservation mitigation plan shall become a part of this approval
with the understanding that additional information may be required prior to final plat
approval.
3. The recommendations found in the memo from City Engineer Jeff Oliver, PE, dated
July 3, 2006 to Mark Grimes, Director of Planning and Development, shall become a
part of this approval.
4. At the time of final plat approval, the subdivision shall be subject of a park dedication
fee. The amount of the fee shall be determined by the City Council at time of final plat
approval.
5. The City Attorney shall determine if title review is needed for this subdivision. If so, the
cost of the title review shall be paid by the applicant.
6. If requested by Hennepin County, additional road dedication or easement dedication
shall be made and shown on the final plat.
7. The existing garage located on the property shall be relocated to a conforming
location prior to final plat approval.
8. The final tree preservation plan shall include the two Chinese elms located on the
southwest corner of 18 Ottawa Avenue North.
9. An agreement as recommended by the Public Works Department regarding the
maintenance of a drainage plan shall be implemented.
--Short Recess--
3. Reports on Meetings of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority, City
Council, Board of Zoning Appeals and other Meetings
No reports were given.
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Minutes of the Golden Valley Planning Commission
July 10, 2006
Page 8
4.
Other Business
The Commissioners discussed performance bonds and maintenance agreements and
the leverage the City has to enforce them.
The Commissioners asked if the City Engineer could attend their meetings. Grimes
stated that they would have to make a request to the City Manager.
5. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 8:30 pm.