8-23-1982OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF AUGUST 23, 1982
The regular meeting was called to order at 7:08 P.M. at Scheid Park,
1865 Toledo and Duluth Street, by Chairman Burmeister. Commission
members present were: Jaffe, Johnson, Kahlow, Micks, Murad, and
Younghans. Also present were Charles Corlett, Program and Policy
Superintendent; Tom Klatt, Assistant Park Maintenance
Superintendent; and Debbie Halvorson, Commission Secretary.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Johnson moved that the Minutes of the July 26, 1982, meeting be
approved as written. Younghans seconded. Motion passed.
NEW BUSINESS
1. Summer Maintenance
Tom Klatt gave an overview of what the summer maintenance
program consists of:
22 parks
175 acres of park land which needs maintaining
9 shelter buildings, which include 7 park shelter
areas, and Brookview picnic and tennis shelter
buildings
Dutch Elms
Weed control
23 tennis courts and
30 ball diamonds
This is taken care of with the help of 5 full-time
people and himself and a summer part-time crew.
He explained what it would require to maintain a two acre
park with play area and ball diamond. Approximately three
hours mowing time per week, 3 hours for general
maintenance, trash removal and pick up. Inspections three
or four times a week to check the location. Fifteen hours
per year in general maintenance and turf maintenance,
fertilizing and leaf pick up. $200 worth of supplies per
year - sand, fertilizer. $500 per 5 years for play
equipment replacement. These figures are based on
established play areas.
Burmeister asked Klatt how the maintenance operation was
doing this year in relation to the budget. Klatt informed
the Commission that it was doing very well. To date
nothing unusual has set them back, such as storms or
vandalism.
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August 23, 1982
Murad asked Klatt if he could give the Commission a total
dollar figure on the cost of a park. Klatt did not have
such a figure available. Micks asked Klatt if $4,000 to
$4,500 would be a good estimate of the cost of maintaining
a two acre park. Klatt felt that this may be a very good
estimate.
Burmeister asked Klatt if we could maintain the parks we
have now and if we could add another. Klatt felt that the
maintenance people were quite efficient and that another
park could be handled, but that adding another park would
mean that less time would be spent at each location.
The 1983 budget has been submitted. There has been a 4%
overall increase over 1982; nothing is being cut.
2. Mary Hills Park Public Input Meeting 7.30 P.M.
Burmeister opened the Mary Hills Park Public Input
Meeting. He explained that in order to change or establish
a park where we already own the property is a two step
program. First the Commission seeks input from the
neighborhood on what their needs, requests, and feelings
are regarding the property. The Commission then takes that
information and with the help of staff establishes a plan.
After which if it is the Commission's recommendation that a
park be established, they will then go back to the
neighbors and present the plan and get further input.
Jaffe then gave a brief summary of the history of the Mary
Hills Park property. She indicated that the Mary Hills
Addition has been discussed over an 8 1/2 year period. The
first Minutes recorded concerning this area was on
November 3, 1977. Copies of the Minutes concerning this
area dated from November 3, 1977 to August 28, 1978 were
distributed to the Commission members and the neighbors in
attandance at the meeting.
Jaffe informed the people that there were several reasons
for no previous action being taken. In the past when
neighborhood meetings were held some of the people were not
interested in having a park due to the increased traffic
and noise it would create. Others desired a park so that
their children would not have to cross Golden Valley Road
in order to go to a park.
Corlett reviewed the current status of an active use park
possibly being developed on the Robbinsdale portion of the
property. He indicated that Robbinsdale would allow Golden
Valley to establish an active use area on the Robbinsdale
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August 23, 1982
property if all costs were borne by Golden Valley. He
further indicated that Robbinsdale will be conducting a
study of their property in the fall of 1982, and they
indicated an active use area would have to fit into their
planned use for this property.
Corlett reviewed for the Commission and residents the
previous plans presented and indicated that active use
areas and natural areas can be maintained on the same
parcel.
Corlett reviewed some of the current problems within the
area i.e. motorized vehicle traffic, dumping of fill
materials and construction refuse. He further indicated
that the area is easily accessible to motorized vehicles
through the Bonnie Lane Culdesac, 26th Avenue North and
from 35th and June Avenue in Robbinsdale.
Mary King of 4025 Wasatch Lane asked the Commission if the
City still plans to keep a bike trail through the area.
The Commission assured her that the bike trail would be
kept. Non -motorized vehicles will be permitted in the area.
Burmeister stated that a survey was made of this area which
revealed that this peice of property lended itself very
well to being an open space.
Burmeister asked for input from the neighbors. Comments
were made as follows:
Marsha Fudge
4041 Bassett Creek Drive
She is relatively new in the area. Sh
wasn't a more positive outlook on this
the concern that she was worried about
hit by motorcycles.
Mike Degen
2560 Dresden Lane
She
asked why there
park. She expressed
her children being
He questioned
why this
subject was brought up again after
four years.
He also questioned
why the Commission only
brought forth
proposals
of active use. He stated that this
area has been
used as a
dump for the past years. He would
like to see the litter
would be best served as
collected and felt that the area
an open space area.
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August 23, 1982
Hank Kamnitz
2500 Dresden Lane
When he first moved in, it was an open area. When the City
Council allowed Skyline Builders to landfill the area,
access was made easier into the area. A playground could
have been made in a central area, but the people did not
want it. He felt that the nature path that presently goes
through the area is excellent and would like to see a
variety of trees, bushes, and flowers added to make it a
real nature area. He felt that the motorcycles that use
the area is a periodic thing; it is not going on all the
time. He felt that the situation got out of hand when they
put in all the old tires and junk in the area.
Jean Wolf
2145 Bonnie Lane
She felt this area was a terrible place for a park because
of the water standing near the tracks and because it is a
marshy area. She said the nature trail is great.
Fideles (Flip) Wolf
2145 Bonnie Lane
Expressed concern about traffic in the area.
Joe Manikowski
2540 Dresden Lane
Asked if the haul road could be removed and plantings put
in.
At this point, Jaffe asked if anyone wanted a tot lot. As
it appeared everyone wanted to maintain the natural trail
and get rid of the motorcycles. The neighbors present
expressed that they did not wish to see a tot lot in the
area.
Mary King
4025 Wasatch Lane
She asked if it
would be possible to extend
the sidewalk on
the north side
of Golden Valley Road/Duluth
Street from
Noble Avenue to
the cross bridge at Scheid Park.
She
further stated
that it is difficult to cross
Golden Valley
Road at Noble even
with the existing traffic
controls.
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August 23, 1982
Leni Wilcox
4035 Wasatch Lane
She does not want her children walking down Golden Valley
Road to the park. She does not feel that extending the
sidewalk is the answer. She thinks we need a play park for
the younger children. Scheid park is good for older kids.
She did not think the Mary Hills Addition area was a good
location for a park because of the seclusion.
Paul Kokesh
2460 Dresden Lane
Expressed a concern about allowing small children in a
secluded area such as the location defined for active use
in the Mary Hills property.
Delores Mrosak
3900 Bassett Creek Drive
She does not want the park; it would be a waste of money.
Helen Melby
3930 Bassett Creek Drive
She felt that the small children should have a park of
their own.
Gloria Johnson
4200 Golden Valley Road
She brought to the attention of the Commission that a tot
lot had been planned years ago on the Rice Creek properties
which called for the Creek to be realigned. Burmeister
said this was not done because it was felt that the area
was not safe for the children to play in because of the
Creek and realigning the Creek would call for the
Department of Natural Resources approval.
Tim Knaeble
Courage Center
He suggested that the Commission look at a different
prospective of having a more adult park to accommodate
residents of Courage Center and people on a out-patient
basis. Burmeister asked what type of areas and equipment
he felt was needed. He answered that he would like to see
the walkways made more accessible for wheelchairs. Trails
with exercise stations for people in wheelchairs and tennis
courts. Presently there are no curb cuts along sidewalks.
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August 23, 1982
The people from Courage Center do not use the parks a great
deal at this time, but it is felt that if the areas were
adapted more to the handicapped it would be used more. At
this time they do not have any specific programs at the
parks.
There being no further comments, Burmeister closed the Mary
Hills Park Public Input Meeting. The next step will be for
the Commission to meet and discuss the information they
received at this meeting and make a recommendation. When
this is established the Commission will return to the
neighborhood for further input.
Jaffe asked that the Mary Hills Park area be put on the
Park Tour itinerary.
OLD BUSINESS
1. Park Tour
The Park Tour is scheduled for October 9, 1982. A rough
itinerary will be arranged.
2. Sub -Committee Athletic Facilities
Younghans reported that they held a meeting last week with
representatives from Babe Ruth (Jim Sable) and the adult
softball teams (Dan Super). He stated that the Little
League is currently discussing organizing a 13 -year old
league. Jim Sable informed the Committee of his experience
in trying to organize a 13 -year old league.
The Committee decided they would not meet again unless they
had something specific to discuss due to poor attendance at
the meetings.
Johnson informed the Commission that the staff expressed a
concern for a permanent soccer feild area in Golden
Valley.
Corlett expressed a
need for a permanent soccer field to
house existing teams
which play in
summer programs. He
further stated that
at the current
time one season of
sports must end in
order to change
the fields at Lions Club
Park, Scheid Park,
Program.
and Wesley Park
for the Fall Soccer
Jaffe suggested that
the corner of
Hwy. 55 and Winnetka be
looked into for the
permanent soccer field area. It was
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Page 7
August 23, 1982
questioned whether that area may be too small to
accommodate soccer due to the need for surrounding open
space. Johnson had suggested to the Committee that we look
into the Good Shepard property, St. Margaret Mary's area
and the south end of Wesley Park. Younghans informed the
Commission of the current summer soccer program operated at
the Honeywell fields operated by Warren Ditch.
Jaffe asked what permanent structures would be needed, and
Corlett answered that there would have to be goal posts,
which would cost approximately $1,000.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
1. Hennepin County Park
Burmeister reviewed a letter from the Hennepin County Park
Reserve District concerning the draft of the Park
District's policy manual. He stated that the Commission
has an opportunity for input into the draft at this time.
In his review, he pointed out his concern for the Reserve
District to keep communities informed of all district plans
within the political subdivisions. He stated that the
current wording allowed the District to use their
discretion on informing local communities of their plans
and actions.
With regard to fees and charges, Burmeister expressed a
concern that the policy manual does not force the District
to give an annual report to all local governmental units
and felt that the language should address this issue.
Burmeister expressed his concern that the District's policy
regarding encroachment was too limiting. He felt that the
last sentence of the policy "In the case of the 80 percent
of Park Reserves, the Board will not consider
encroachments." should be struck from the policy.
Burmeister asked the Commission to review the copies which
they should have received in the mail and have any input
ready for the next meeting. The deadline for the
Commission's input is September 30, 1982.
2. Community Center Update
This is at a standstill. We are waiting for the
Robbinsdale School Administration to come back and
determine if they have availabilities or time schedules to
accommodate us. There really is no update at this time.
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Page 8
August 23, 1982
DEPARTMENT REPORT
1. Preliminary Summer Report
Corlett handed out and reviewed for the Commission a copy
of the 1982 Summer Playground Report prepared by Cynthia
Matzke, Summer Playground Supervisor.
He also reviewed for the Commission the decision to close
the Brookview Pool. The decision was based on the low
participation in the pool the week of August 9 through
August 15 and the high cost of staffing the pool for such a
low number.
At this time, Younghans requested that the Brookview Golf
Course be discussed.
Younghans stated for the record: "We have already lost one
or two tee areas. The sprinkler system is inoperable and
Brookview Golf Course represents 40% of the open space of
the City." He further discussed the inadequate maintenance
of the course and stated the green superintendent only had
four young kids helping him maintain the course. He stated
that something must be done and that it will take a couple
of years to get the course back into good condition. He
further expressed that other public golf courses are in
good condition. He stated that Todd Christenson is doing a
good job and that in the organization structure he is not
responsible for maintenance. He stated also that the
course is in the worst shape that it has been in 12 years.
He cited the example of the tee boxes being covered with
broken tees. He stated that we have to fix the watering
system and currently no one has the existing watering
system plans.
DEPARTMENT REPORT CONTINUED
2. MRPA Conference
Corlett informed the Commission that the MRPA Conference
will be held November 17 - 19. Commission members have
received pre -announcements. The registration forms will
come later.
Corlett informed
resignation from
Denver where he
Denver area. He
need to see some
getting people t
the Commission of Richard Fuller's
the Commission. His job has moved him to
gill be Regional Director/Manager for the
will write a letter of resignation. We
recommendations or get some help in
D actually apply for a Commission position.
1
1
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Page 9
August 23, 1982
NEXT MEETING
The next meeting will be held September 20, 1982, at 7:30 P.M. at
Brookview Community Center.
ADJOURNMENT
Kahlow moved the meeting adjourned and Murad seconded. Motion was
unanimously passed. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 P.M.
Chairman Burmeister
n
1
Vice Chairperson Micks