05-15-14 Joint PC-EC-OSRC Minutes Joint Meeting of the Planning Commission, Environmental Commission and Open
Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
A joint meeting of the Planning Commission, Environmental Commission and Open
Space and Recreation Commission was held at the Golden Valley City Hall, Council
Chambers, 7800 Golden Valley Road, Golden Valley, Minnesota, on Thursday, May 15,
2014. Planning Commission Chair Kluchka called the meeting to order at 7 pm.
Those present were Planning Commissioners Baker, Kluchka, Segelbaum and
Waldhauser, Environmental Commissioner Tonia Galonska, Open Space and Recreation
Commissioners Cornelius, Kuebelbeck, Mattison, Rosenquist, Sandler and Steinberg.
Also present were Community Development Director Mark Grimes, City Planner Jason
Zimmerman, Public Works Specialist Eric Eckman and Administrative Assistant Lisa
Wittman.
1. Accept public comments on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS)
for the proposed Bottineau Transitway
Zimmerman briefly discussed the project development timeline, the milestones achieved,
and the project goals.
Kluchka opened the public hearing.
Sean Fahey, 3941 Bassett Creek Drive, said that the DEIS shows that Golden Valley is
not going to get any open space or environmental benefit. If anything, there is going to be
increased traffic and reduced air quality. He said there may be development opportunities
but from an environmental standpoint that just means there will be environmental
degradation and wetland filling according to chapters five and six in the DEIS. He said the
City should try to fight for mitigations as much as possible and use municipal consent as a
way to get mitigations needed for sound and light. He said the City shouldn't be afraid to
use municipal consent as a tool to make this project as beneficial as possible to Golden
Valley.
Christophe Wall-Romana, 2912 Kyle Avenue North, said he is a daily bus user and is
strongly against the Bottineau LRT proposed alignment. He said the DEIS asks Golden
Valley to sacrifice its environmental and recreational assets for an LRT project that will
benefit the City very little and will serve mostly other communities further north. He said
only 2.5% of the population will use the LRT and will meanwhile damage forever the
peace and quality of life of all. It will also affect the beauty of two parks as well as
Theodore Wirth which thousands of people from Golden Valley use. He said the project is
expedient rather than respectful of people's lives. He said the LRT alignment completely
bypasses North Minneapolis which is a big problem because they are the densest users
of mass transit, with the lowest income and lowest car ownership in all of the Twin Cities
area. He said the D2 option along Penn Avenue is the only other given option which the
DEIS invalidates in the name of environmental justice, rightly so and D2 is a bad
alignment, but other alignments should be considered. Time and money should not
pressure the City into accepting a flawed alignment. He asked the Commissioners to
Joint Meeting of the Planning Commission, Environmental Commission and Open
Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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preserve the natural environment in the City's recreational facilities and more importantly
preserve the right of all present and future Golden Valley residents to enjoy these fragile
resources by keeping the precious wetlands and beautiful landscape intact.
Madge Thorsen, 2811 June Avenue North, said the draft EIS is legally inadequate in a
number of ways. It doesn't analyze whether Mary Hills and Sochacki are being
constructively used by the project within the meaning of Section 4F of the Federal
Transportation Act when noise and vibration and defoliation and deforestation impacts
essentially rob parks of their essence, that is a use, and a whole lot of things follow from
that in terms of what needs to occur next if the parks are being used. Yet, the draft EIS is
silent as to these two parks and that part of the required analysis. The same is true with
respect to temporary occupancy. She said the DEIS recites in chapter four that the project
is consistent with Comprehensive Plan of Golden Valley and Robbinsdale, but it doesn't
mention the park sections of those plans. Chapter six in Golden Valley's plan says Mary
Hills is a natural preserve for visual aesthetics and buffering, for walking and for passive
recreational uses. Those appear to be inconsistent with shooting 82 decibels of linear
noise down the tracks every 7 minutes, but you wouldn't even know that because that
analysis is not provided, the facts are not there on which to base a decision. She said she
also thinks the DEIS also underestimates the cost of the D1 alignment because it does
not analyze inverse condemnation damages. A government can take property, not just by
grabbing it, but by creating effects that diminish market values. She suggested the
Commissioners talk to the Metropolitan Airport Commission who has been in noise
litigation for 20, 30, 40 years. If the costs are understated they can't be compared to the
D2 or any other alignment and the comparison of options are deprived which is a core
flaw in the analysis of the EIS document. So Golden Valley as stewards of public land
really needs to make some serious comments about this draft EIS.
Joanie Clausen, 2516 Lee Avenue North, said she received an email from a resident that
she would like put on record. She has been told that there will fencing around the
Bottineau line and she is concerned that would make it hard for animals and residents to
go back and forth. The residents in the area near St. Margaret Mary would not be able to
use the nature area in the same manner. She is also concerned about noise and said a
sound wall with natural trees and bushes would be best or a temporary sound wall should
be installed until trees mature.
Brad Thorson, 2811 June Avenue North said he needs to see some renderings of what
this is going to look like. If you look at the environmental impacts in the DEIS they are
moving the rail line, they are adding two other lines, they are putting up a sound barrier or
possible fence, he has no idea what this will look like. He said some renderings have
been done for the station in the Wirth area but there is nothing at all for the public to see
as to what sort of impact that will have and how it will change the way the park can be
used.
Nils Berg, 2440 Dresden Lane, said it seems like the materials are month too late or this
meeting is a month too early to be productive and it feels as though this whole venture
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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has a quick shuffle. He said he finds it interesting that the Bottineau preferred alternative
was selected because the planners didn't want to displace either 72 or 175 families in
North Minneapolis both of which the LRT representatives have said. He said that's a
noble thought even if it is more than a tad disingenuous. In reality, the LRT is all about
social engineering. It goes beyond social planning it is about telling people where they
have to live. Retrofitting trains through valued neighborhoods is all about community
disruption and displacement and to think of it as anything else is an exercise in deception
and illusion. He said the DEIS document has an extensive section on water management
and that's a good thing. Water flow going in and out of Rice Lake is a major concern for
those who live in the area. He said Robbinsdale plugged up the flow under the BNSF
tracks a number of years ago and as a result they experienced significant flooding in both
Mary Hills Park and in their back yards. The water flow was so strong that they could
literally white water raft in their yards. When Robbinsdale put in the new drainage culverts
the matter was resolved and to this day those who live south of that area remain
interested in any water tampering that's occurring upstream. He asked what is in it for
freight. Reports about train delays, accidents and oil movement seem to appear on a
frequent basis in the Star Tribune. He said it makes him think that if he was Burlington
Northern Rail and he had trains backed up he would be interested in gaining shipping
capacity. If you won't or can't give that to them, why would they be interested in sitting
across the table from them and if he was the Golden Valley City Council, he wouldn't
want to have to go back to his constituents and tell them that he had been successful in
getting the railroad to bring longer, heavier and possibly oil laden trains through their
neighborhood. He said his real concern is that he sees nothing in the DEIS addressing
the fact that Mary Hills Nature Center and Sochacki Park are both sitting on a landfill. The
landfill area is the final resting place for old Highway 100. The various paths in the parks
have concrete slabs that can readily be seen are the remnants of the old roadway. The
thing of interest about that is much of Highway 100 was built as a post-depression
Department of Public Works project in the 1930s. Back then, before people knew any
better, asbestos was commonly used in many forms of construction including highways.
Asbestos fibers bonded to and strengthened the cement. It was not affected by
temperature changes and helped provide protection from salt damage to the roadways.
He said he doesn't know if there is actually any asbestos present in the concrete and from
what he can tell neither does the DEIS document because it doesn't mention it. He said
he does know that a variety of respiratory ailments can be directly traced to asbestos.
According to the Mesothelioma website exposure over time can have dire consequences.
An article he read states that an unbroken block of cement presents no danger, but any
time it is cracked or broken, microscopic bits of asbestos are released. Once airborne
they can be breathed in by an unsuspecting victim who discovers years later that the
material has lodged in their respiratory system. The article states that people can still be
exposed to asbestos if they come across broken chunks of cement that contain the
hazardous material. He said he doesn't bring this up to instill fear but to encourage
caution. He said light rail does not exist in its own little vacuum you need to look at the
whole picture. The City Council does not live in a vacuum either and needs to be acutely
aware of how moving heavy freight more deeply into Mary Hills could negatively impact
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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the health and welfare of City residents. Anything that causes ground vibration could
disturb materials that need to be kept dormant.
Margaret Wall-Ramano, 2912 Kyle Avenue North, said she is concerned about the noise
that will come with this project and how it will impact the D1 neighborhood. She said a
deeply felt imperative and core pleasure of every Minnesotan is to be outdoors as much
as possible once winter is gone. A lot of recreational activities take place not necessarily
at parks, but at home in front and back yards and on porches, stoops and balconies.
Soaking up the warmth of family and friends, drinking, grilling, throwing a ball, watching
the kids run through the sprinkler, chasing the dog, gardening, and taking a nap in the sun
are the kinds of things we live to do in the warm weather months after suffering through
our long winters, everybody knows this. The DEIS includes a noise reading for her
neighborhood that characterizes the ambient noise as rural ambient, that's how quiet their
neighborhood is, it's unbelievable, and it's into this peaceful environment that the LRT will
charge, effectively destroying people's ability to enjoy the use of their outdoor spaces in
the way that they expect to be able to do. This will radically change people's lives not only
temporarily with the construction activities, for how many years she hasn't been able to
find out, but permanently with constant noise interruptions day in and day out. Some of
her worst impacted neighbors will basically only be able to enjoy their homes when they
are asleep, if they can stay asleep, which is a very wrong thing. She said she was
flabbergasted to learn that in Golden Valley construction noise will be allowed 365 days a
year between the hours of 7 am and 10 pm. This is an outrage and it must be corrected.
Right now she asks that the City Council or the powers that be swiftly amend the City's
noise ordinance to bring it in line with that of Minneapolis. It's ironic that Minneapolis, the
big noisy, bustling city recognizes that its citizens need, and have the right to have, quiet
after 6 pm while Golden Valley, whose quiet is one of its main treasures does not, and in
fact has given it away and for what? It's admirable to be a cooperative regional neighbor,
but not when the well-being and property rights of your own citizens are thrown under the
train.
Father Paul Moudry, Pastor, St. Margaret Mary Church, said their concerns are noise and
pollution. If a station is built across the street from their church and the tracks go along
their western border the noise will be really incredible with 200 trains per day going by
with bells ringing as the train comes and goes from the station. The lights that would go
on at the station and potential parking areas would be detrimental to some of things that
they do at their campus with the neighborhood as well. Another concern is the pollution.
He knows the buses are scheduled to stop on Golden Valley Road which might be
environmentally friendly, but all the automobiles coming to and from the station and park
and ride with all their noise and exhaust would not. He said their campus looks quiet and
melancholy but it's very active 12 months of the year and they have an elementary school
on the property so there are a lot of safety concerns. He said strangers cannot go across
the school property. There are currently a few who go to the bus stop, but this would
really increase if there is any kind of a light rail station. There have been offerings in some
of the printed materials that their campus is one site being considered for a park and ride,
they strongly oppose that. He wants to make it clear to everybody that their campus isn't
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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for sale, their parish isn't dying, it is growing and that the parish owns the property, not the
arch diocese. So noise, light and air pollution are some of their greatest concerns. And
the traffic going to and from their parish with lots of senior citizens is confusing for them
now, it will be even worse with added traffic.
Edward Johnson, 2718 Dupont Avenue South, said he is concerned about the comments
that have been made so far. He hopes that this has not devolved into another situation
currently being faced with the Southwest Corridor where the NIMBYs are definitely on the
way to destroying that line. He would hate to see the same thing happen to this line. This
nation, whether we want to realize it or not, is running out of energy, cheap oil, gas and
coal and we need to do all we can to develop electrified rail in this country and especially
here in the Twin Cities where we are so far behind compared to other cities. He said he
wants to make sure that this project is realized as a benefit both to the environment and
to future generations. He said there will be some construction noise and he lived along
the Hiawatha line while it was being built and he had no problem with living with the
construction noise and he has found that the line itself have very little noise compared to
the traffic on Hiawatha Avenue. He said he hopes the line and stations will be retrofitted
with restrooms for the aging population because that seems like something that has been
missed in the plans. He also hopes there will be some connecting street car lines
eventually to mitigate some of the bus and traffic noise. He said we've got to get serious
about electrified rail in this country and if we don't progress with the federal money that
will help, we won't get any and Minnesota doesn't get much federal money compared to
what we put into Washington. This is one way of getting some of our money back.
Mary Leach, 301 Meadow Lane South, said she absolutely cannot understand why usage
isn't being maximized. She finds it very difficult to understand why the Bottineau line is not
running through North Minneapolis for people who need the transportation the most.
There is the most vacant land for parking lots all along Broadway which is one
demolished building after another. She just fails to understand why we aren't taking all
this federal money and maximizing the usage for the greatest benefit for the greater good
and people who really need this. She said she is also concerned about going through
parkland which is such a precious and rare commodity. She said it is very hard to
understand how plans have evolved to this point considering what the needs and
objectives are.
Seeing and hearing no one else wishing to comment Chair Kluchka closed the public
hearing.
2. Discussion regarding a recommendation to the Golden Valley City Council
on the City's official comments
Kluchka asked how the content of the draft letter to the City Council was developed.
Zimmerman explained that it goes back to the City Council's response letter to the
Bottineau scoping documents and the issues the City wants to keep in the forefront and
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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the things that need more study such as parking, impacts of traffic, and mitigation of
visual impacts along with flood plain and wetland impacts.
Kluchka asked about milestones and the next opportunities to provide comments before
municipal consent. Zimmerman explained that the comments from the Draft EIS public
hearings will go to the County and a Final EIS will be done. Then, the development
phase, or 30% design plan, will be done and that is when municipal consent is sought.
Steinberg asked how specific his questions/comments to staff should be. Zimmerman
explained that specific comments and concerns should be put on a comment card or
emailed to the County. He added that the City is trying to be broader in their comments at
this point and consultants will help with the details over the next two years. Steinberg said
he wants staff to address specific issues. Zimmerman stated that it is up to this group to
decide how detailed the DEIS response letter to the County should be.
Segelbaum said he thinks that broad topics need to be captured and then they can decide
if anything else should be added. Sandler said there are a lot of concerns and he thinks
they need to be very specific and complete as possible because the County needs to
know that they are serious.
Rosenquist said she likes the draft letter, but stronger language should be used. For
example when talking about mitigation instead of saying "if needed" it should say "as
needed" because the City needs to be a partner in these plans. She also said she thinks
things should be looked at in a future sense 20 to 50 years out and the environmental
impact.
Mattison said he is concerned about the obsequious nature of the draft letter and said that
the City Council doesn't need to thank the County three times for letting us comment on
the EIS. He said the most important thing to him is preserving Mary Hills Park. He doesn't
want to give up park land for nothing in return. He suggested reconsidering the order of
the five major points in the letter because mitigating noise and preserving nature areas
are more important than the parking issues discussed in the letter.
Kluchka asked the Commissioners if they think there is a sense of prioritization in the
letter. Cornelius said he thinks the items are prioritized because they are numbered. He
agreed that the City should use stronger language and stand up for itself. Segelbaum said
it will be difficult to prioritize the items. Sandler agreed that it will be difficult to say one
issue is more important than another. Kluchka suggested using bullets in the letter rather
than numbers. Kuebelbeck said they've heard over and over again concerns about the
environment and noise, and then traffic so the letter should have the items in that order to
have the same feeling.
Mattison said he would like to have another Open Space and Recreation meeting in order
to write their own comments. Baker said he thinks the Commissioner's charge from the
City Council is to incorporate the comments they've heard tonight into the DEIS response
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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letter. Waldhauser added that there is a presumption that the Commissioners understand
the resident's concerns because they have attended all the various meetings. She stated
that at this point, this meeting is just one more opportunity for people to express their
concerns which she trusts will be summarized in the City's DEIS response letter.
Steinberg said he wants to make sure that things are addressed and there are number of
things missing in the DEIS. He questioned why Floyd Olson got 11 lines in the DEIS but
Bonnie Lane isn't mentioned and St. Margaret Mary Church is not listed as a historical
property.
Rosenquist stated that the timeline for construction is missing from the DEIS and she
didn't see an environmental plan or mention of impacts of the actual construction phase.
Mattison noted that the recreational and atheistic impacts on Mary Hills and other parks
are also missing. He said he wants a thorough analysis on the recreation impacts on this
very unique area. Waldhauser added the DEIS addresses the natural habitat but not the
human use of the area and suggested that issue be addressed. Grimes stated that those
concerns are in the response letter and that staff would add more detail to that section.
Sandler said he is concerned about mitigation. He said the DEIS doesn't address the real
issue and the response letter needs to say that if the level of impact is so great that it
can't be mitigated then the project is not worth it. Kluchka suggested that the response
letter state that the mitigation effects need to be studied. Sandler questioned how they will
be held accountable. Grimes reminded the Commissioners that the Bassett Creek
Watershed and the DNR will also be reviewing the DEIS.
Waldhauser said she thinks the response letter should focus on noise, lighting, increased
traffic on the existing freight line, and mitigation efforts. Sandler said there are things
prescribed in the DEIS, but the City needs to say they are not good enough. Zimmerman
noted that the City doesn't have control over the freight lines.
Galonska asked what the area will look like in 20 or 30 years and stated that the
Bottineau proposal could be detrimental to pedestrians.
Steinberg stated that Sochacki Park and Mary Hills Park were both at one time landfill
areas and that is not even mentioned in the DEIS. He said that should be mentioned as a
possible clean-up or focus area. Zimmerman said he would add language about the
landfill area to the response letter.
Segelbaum suggested placing more focus on pollution. Rosenquist noted that pollution is
discussed in the DEIS in terms of station planning. Waldhauser suggested that the
language regarding station locations be broadened to include noise, auto exhaust and
bus fumes.
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Space and Recreation Commission
May 15, 2014
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Waldhauser suggested language about personal safety in and around the stations and St.
Margaret Mary School be added to the response letter. Kluchka said the language about
safety should focus on prevention. Steinberg added that jurisdiction should also be
discussed. Rosenquist said safety of wildlife should also be included.
Cornelius stated that water control should be discussed in the response letter. Eckman
noted that stormwater and wetland issues are heavily regulated by other agencies.
Kluchka said there needs to be a plan for mitigation, accountability and expectations.
Mattison said he doesn't want the City's parkland to be the floodplain. Rosenquist stated
that the DEIS document considered the conditions as of two years ago and that it really
needs to look at the future. Eckman stated that much of this area is a floodplain and the
City wants the water to be in this area and not in people's homes. Kluchka asked if the
City could get a better park out of the project.
Baker said the DEIS doesn't do an adequate job of assessing the cost of noise and loss
of quiet and solitude. The Commissioners agreed that would be valuable information.
Waldhauser asked if visual renderings could be provided. Kluchka said he would like
visuals, rather than just tables, added to the EIS document.
Steinberg said he is concerned that there is no mention of bus service re-routing. Kluchka
said there should be clarity around transit access for Golden Valley.
Zimmerman said he would work on revising the response letter and send it to the
Commission Chairs before it goes forward to the Council for review.
3. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 pm.
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Charles D. Segelbaum, ary L a Wittman, Administrative Assistant